Michelle V. Sober Since 1990 Shares Recovery Story

The Recovering CEO  0:30  
Hello and welcome. My name is Derek, the recovering CEO. Welcome to our podcast and video podcast. I'm here with a very special guest today who actually has longer term sobriety than me. And I've known her for a long time and she's wonderful. Her name is Michelle, how are you, Michelle?

Michelle V  0:46  
Fantastic. I'm really glad you asked me to come on the show. Thank you.

The Recovering CEO  0:51  
Well, thank you so much for being here. You're a special guest, Michelle v. And so I guess tell our listeners, when did you get sober? And why did you get sober?

Michelle V  1:02  
My sobriety date is September 29, of 1990. And it's now my story is a little bit unique in that there was some recovery around me when I was young. And so there was at least some awareness in my household from the time I was a middle school ish, and that my mother had gone to Al Anon as a direct result of the fact that both of my parents families are riddled with alcoholism and and much much codependence. And my mother recognized that she was not able to handle handle the way things were without some help. So she started attending Al Anon. So there was some awareness in our household for my I have an older brother. So he and I had some awareness of recovery, although it was really peripheral, and, but a little bit of education, a little bit of information that did sort of filter in through my thick skull at the time. And so when I started seeing indicators in myself, you know, in recovery, we talked about, you know, headful of a will believe, belly full of liquor will really make for a miserable, miserable combination. I had some of that before I ever took my first drink. So that was fun. But, um, so little, little bits of information, like blackouts aren't normal. And if you think about drinking and plan for drinking plan for drugging more than you would plan for dinner, or any other normal activity that there might be might be an issue. So just having that little bit of information to roll with, I started to see that there might be an issue that it wasn't normal to be surrounded by alcohol all the time. And it wasn't normal to have blackouts. So when I started having them I had a and I had already.

The Recovering CEO  3:06  
Well, so that's interesting. Because like when I came in, when I A was not even in my vocabulary, I never used the word alcoholic. I never thought I never thought my problem was drugs or alcohol. So you know, took me a few years of falling on my face to realize maybe I have a drinking problem, or maybe it's the drugs. But you I think maybe that's one of the reasons you're able to get sober So Young is because you had some of this forewarning some of the education about it, you think

Michelle V  3:31  
it absolutely had everything to do with it, that I had some idea of where I could find a meetings because my mother been going to Al Anon. And I knew that there were AA meetings happening in those locations at the same time. But, but really, it was the information that I had gotten from going to a few Alateen meetings that my mother essentially dragged my brother and I to and we went and but some information soaked in even though I wasn't 100% willing participant, some some information got in there. And that that information really did make the difference. It might not have gotten me sober at that time if other things hadn't lined up, like the stars hadn't aligned in some other ways as well. But it definitely at least got me to a meeting. Because the blackouts I was able to sort of ignore them for a while and sort of pretend I didn't have a good memory. And you know, just sort of ignore it and pretend they weren't really happening. But then a couple of them were a little more lengthy. And it was something I couldn't get that information out of my head. And really outside of outside of the blackouts none of the rest of the things that happened when I was drinking really concerned me at all. So if I hadn't already heard that several times that that's not normal. That I don't believe I would have gone to a meeting for a lot longer.

The Recovering CEO  5:10  
So was there any one particular incident or was it just having a few blackouts that you realize this isn't good for me type thing?

Michelle V  5:17  
Well, no, there were incidents there. Towards the end, it wasn't the last time I drank, but there there was some very dramatic actually, actually. What bothered me more was, were some things that happened. Say I consider blackouts and brownouts, brownouts that I can remember some of what happened, but I had zero control. It was as if I was just watching as opposed to an active participant. And the blackouts actually didn't bother me that much. Because usually after the fact, maybe I was mouthy, maybe I get up, but nothing, nothing too terrible. But as one particular incident, there was like, so what it considered a brownout where I had no control over what was happening. And I was it was like, I was watching an actress, live my life and participate in things I would never normally do. I mean, this was, you know, going out with people that I didn't know and, you know, I ended up sleeping with somebody I didn't know when and, and had literally no control. In this situation. I was, like I said, it was this actually pretty terrifying. Just watching. And, and not having any control. And actually, in the middle of activity, and I've heard people talk about this, like coming to while they're awake while they're walking around talking. And that's, that's kind of what happens to me, although, like I said, it was this sort of brownout, to kind of where I all of a sudden, was sort of myself again, sober, but sort of myself again, and, and just completely separated myself from the situation I was in. But it was it was a pretty terrifying experience. It was not the last time I drank them, but it was enough to worry me.

The Recovering CEO  7:23  
Wow. Wow. And that was you said 1990. So do you actually, do you remember the feeling of that you remember the feeling of kind of that loss of control and fear, I guess that released your awareness?

Michelle V  7:36  
I do. Honestly, I was feeling it. When I was talking about it, it was just one of the scariest things I've ever felt. And honestly, obviously, a long time ago, and I have have gone through a lot of life since then, including having having a family and you know, there's there's very little that has ever scared me that much. And I think anything less than that I would have been able to ignore for a lot longer.

The Recovering CEO  8:09  
Yeah, that's, you know, early. Yeah. Cuz I know you're a mom, and you have a couple of wonderful children. And you're married, I'm married to I've two daughters. But it's, you know, the value of being raised with good morals or good values, right. And it's when I was in my addiction, just reflecting a little bit, you know, I found myself doing things that I didn't think I would normally do you know, it, it made me do things that I knew were against my morals, and eventually that when that bumps up against something, then it creates awareness that there's something wrong, you know, so it's kind of like, going, you know, they talk about a God of your understanding or Higher Power of your understanding, like what I'm going against God's will or what the universe as well as for me, I can feel that conflict which was often when I was in my addiction. So if I'm out of my addiction, then I can kind of go with the flow and, and it sounds like all the way back in 1990, you eventually got sober and your life started kind of flowing a little bit more. Can you talk about that transition?

Michelle V  9:12  
Yeah, well, because I was very young at the time. I I see some people who maybe had some stability as adults before they got into their drinking and addiction. So they had some maturity. Why didn't have any of that in my using or my recovery for the first few years? Because I was 16 when I got sober and getting getting sober. That was that was an interesting experience in and of itself and that I I did end up going to a meeting that I was aware of and then I went to another meeting and it felt I felt at home in a way that I would have a hard time explaining to somebody who hasn't experienced at themselves, that I felt comfortable in my own skin for the space of an hour. And, you know, from prayer to prayer, the second that, you know, and closing prayer was done, I was out, like a shot, did not want to talk to anybody, I did not want anybody to necessarily see me. But um, but I felt more comfortable in my own skin than I had in in years. And that was something but had I not then seeing a therapist at the time because my parents were had had gotten divorced. And my my mother wanted us both my brother and I to see a therapist. And if it weren't for the therapists reaction, I'm not sure if I was stuck with it initially. When I told him I'd gone to an AAA meeting, his reaction was good. And I thought no one had any idea that I there was really much of anything going on. I mean, granted, I had ever stayed out on lights and worried my mother to death, granted, you know, things had happened. But no one else in my life, including my mother was really sure anything was really wrong, just normal, teenage, whatever. And he was the only one who was very definitive in his reaction. And turns out he's, he's a recovering alcoholic. Home actually, I few years ago, I tried to track down one of these days, maybe I will, and because I because I really would like to thank him, because that was exactly what I needed at the time. That's wonderful. One of the ways. Yeah, it's just just one of those things that just line up exactly the way we need them to. And because of that, I just continued to go to meetings. And never once did I leave a meeting and think I couldn't relate to anything. That never happened. Not then not now. But being sober. That young was weird. I was got sober in Dearborn. And there were no young people in the area. So the youngest person I saw going to meetings there at that time, was a mid 20s. And so that was there was a big enough gap. But actually it worked out okay, because instead of feeling alienated, I actually had some some really wonderful timers. And when I use the term old timers, I mean that the way we use it in AAA, which is simply that this is someone who's got a lot of time sober. And so these wonderful old timers who sort of adopted me, took me under their wing and decided they were going to take me out out to coffee after the meetings and make sure that, you know, if I if I asked for it, that I had rights to any meetings that I needed to get to because I wasn't driving at the time. And it wasn't because I lost my license was because I hadn't gotten it yet. But I really was just cared for honestly, beautifully by by some old timers in the area. And they also fairly quickly within the first six months got hooked up with some young people's groups that were in the Southeast Michigan area. And really just found my pick found my place found found people who were in similar situations who were also getting sober in high school, that even though it was unusual, it wasn't unheard of. I certainly wasn't the only one by far. And so I found some other young people who had gotten sober and were actively trying to stay sober. It was a really good very needed support for me at the time.

The Recovering CEO  14:06  
Wow. Yeah, that's wonderful. I think I love the old timers that you know, I can say from experience that I'm sure you know, to like watching someone come into a and grow up in the program is such a gift right? And I'm sure he must have been quite a gift when you came in and then they saw you grow over the years. And you know, that's that's what it's all about. Right? It's helping others and then you know, carrying the message. So I can't imagine being 16 So you still have your high school you're still now you think when you quit drugs now you can't have fun anymore. I mean, we you still able to have fun. Did you find a good sober life out there?

Michelle V  14:46  
Oh, absolutely. Now in high school, I was very awkward with the people that I grew up with by the time I was in high school and it was all me At that point, I realized during my senior year that it was all me. But at that point, I felt awkward enough with those people that I didn't know how to be around the people I grew up with sober, that anytime I interacted with people I went to high school with if we weren't with, we were outside of a classroom setting. I was always drinking if I was around people I went to school with because that was that was absolutely my own, being uncomfortable in my own skin and having a very low opinion of myself at the time. And that the way that translated in early sobriety is I spent time almost exclusively with people in recovery. And that was okay, that I think that was what I needed at the time. I wasn't trying to be social with peers who were not in recovery, I wasn't trying to spend time doing a lot of things that were outside of what needed to happen, you know, just school and basic care and feeding of a teenager, and my recovery. So I wasn't doing much outside of that. And that was an imperfect for the time. But then I realized later that were I thought these were, you know, some rather rotten people that I had grown up with that. It was mostly me. Some, some of them were, you know, not not fabulous, but because they had their own issues. But then there were some really great people that I grew up with. And I just didn't realize they were pretty great people until well, until we were getting close to graduation. And I finally, because of recovery, started to get over myself a little bit and realize that not everything was about me. And that was very helpful. But but it was it was very late in my high school career before I figured that out. So the good news, bad news, the bad news for me was simply that I never gave myself much of an opportunity to get very close to the people that I grew up with, in in that setting. But the amazing thing is that I have had the opportunity to have friends that I refer to as lifelong friends that are from when I first got sober. Actually one of my one of my best friends. Now today, I met in the first few months sober at a meeting. And we're so close friends today. And so those are the people I refer to when I'm saying, you know, people I grew up with.

The Recovering CEO  17:39  
That's incredible. Tell me a little bit about that friendship. You said one of your best friends you met in a meeting and you've stayed friends this long. I'm very curious.

Michelle V  17:48  
Well, it was one of those young people's meetings. And although although I do have people that I know, well, who I still see occasionally from other meetings that I went to, but the people I got closest with or, you know, like, like we tend to do or people I have more in common with. And this woman, her name is Terry. And she was at one of the young people's meetings, I went to West Side young people's group, and I cannot remember the name of the church, I'd have to look up but it was in Livonia. And she just she was really involved in the group. When I got there. She had been going to that meeting for a little bit before for the first time I attended. And I was terrified, and yet I wanted to be right in the middle. So yeah, I wanted the attention and also just to be connected. So getting involved in that group meant getting to know Terry and and some others, just getting to know them better spending time with them simply the act of getting more involved in the group. And then we started to do all kinds of things outside of that meeting. There were sober camp outs and conferences, young people's conferences, we actually put together a host committee for the Michigan young people's conference, Mickey paw. And that was quite a process. That was that was a few years later, but um, but initially, it was small, it was a oh, we're all going to go out to dinner. Or we're all going to go out for coffee. Or we did ridiculous things like you know, we were ridiculous teenagers just sober. We would stay up all night and then go to the loony Baker and get hot. Don't have bear claws first thing in the morning was my favorite. We actually had a lot of fun and one of and one of those. One of those folks. Joe, who is no longer with us actually taught me how to drive stick shift in the looney Baker parking lot.

The Recovering CEO  19:55  
That's funny. Yeah, a bunch of my brothers fraternity from Michigan would always Hey, Dr. Looney Baker drunk and they would like it all and get all goofy in the parking lot and like, I think it was just an excuse to get doughnuts but yeah, I used to go to meetings in Livonia too because I kind of grew up right around Livonia. I have a border like eight and Neubert. So I went to Novi meetings Slavonia meetings like that whole Well, the only had a bunch and North note, I had a bunch. So pretty much those but yeah, that's great. Yeah, when

Michelle V  20:25  
I was younger, before I had a family before I had, you know, the all of the adulting responsibilities. I went to meetings all over I went Redford, I went to downriver a few different places in Dearborn. For some reason, I did not come out to the Ann Arbor area, though almost ever, which is hysterical to me now, since you know, moving here, but I went just all over, when when I think about now, the geographic area covered. All the different meeting sites ended at various times. This is quite a lot, quite a lot of space. But it was one of the things that made it fun for me when I when I especially those first few years, because like you're saying I needed it to be fun, I needed to know that I wasn't losing anything by getting sober. I wasn't missing out on anything. And, and the truth is, I missed out on so much when I was drinking because I was afraid I drank because I was afraid I I didn't like myself, and I really had just a lot of fear and anxiety. And it went away when I drank it went away when I smoked pot and but then, you know, it would come rushing back and then I felt guilty. And then of course there were those fabulous times when I would do things that I wouldn't normally do things that I was ashamed of. And then so then you add that on top of the existing fear and anxiety. And it was of course it was it was awful, and kept getting worse. And that was that was mounting. But so it's interesting how when we get somewhere we think, you know, we didn't want to miss out on things. And I'm like, we don't want to miss out on things like what randomly sleeping with strangers and ending up somewhere and potentially, you know, getting murdered and yeah, missing out on all kinds of things.

The Recovering CEO  22:24  
Well, and so back then you really you got sober when it was all smoking meetings pretty much

Michelle V  22:30  
actually. And of course there's the you know, newcomer service commitments are you know, cleaning ashtrays cleaning ashtrays, then and, you know, cleaning up the chairs after at the end of the meeting, but yes, I cleaned a lot of ashtrays and what's funny is I never smoked cigarettes. I smoked marijuana, but I never smoked cigarettes. But that's was disgusting. But yes, I claimed many industry.

The Recovering CEO  22:57  
Well, it's funny because I remember going to like at 10:30am meeting in Redford, and the whole room was smoking but then there was little room that was non smoking room. And it was like just a smoky but it had like kind of a door that separated it. But I swear I must have smelled like cigarettes. You know? It was crazy here. You can see people but stereotypical alcoholics. Yeah,

Michelle V  23:22  
yeah. So we don't do so did you play? Yeah, that's for sure.

The Recovering CEO  23:26  
Right. Exactly, exactly. So tell me a little bit about like, did you go on to more school after high school? Or where did you kind of do like, how did you grow and evolve after that?

Michelle V  23:38  
Well, I did go to college just went to local community college for a couple of years. But I really didn't know what I wanted to do. And I thought about it years later, it occurred to me that while my upbringing was not a movie of the week, excuse me movie of the week drama, it was it was dysfunctional. It wasn't the focus wasn't on what was best for my brother and I, the focus was on our because of some other addiction issues in my family, were they going to be able to keep the house and the focus was on? Were my parents going to stay together or not. And the focus was on a lot of other things, but it was not on what was best for my brother and I. And when I have conversations with my own kids over the years about college and what they need from us and what what they're interested in those conversations never happened in my household. So I never really thought what do I want, you know, what do I want to do and what am I good at? What would what would be fulfilling to me what would be interesting to me, those those just weren't conversations that ever happened. And then in recovery, that wasn't the focus that you know, the focus wasn't on. You know how How am I going to support myself as an adult? And what is that going to look like? So I just did what was in front of me, I just did the next right thing and but I was well taken care of in that regard. Because while I was in school, I was working. And the job I was doing was just helping out a friend of the family in her office, in bet her business. And I just picked up things here and there found some things that I was just really good at. And were interesting to me. And that evolved into now. Well, actually, I just accepted a position doing something slightly different. But over the last 20, some years, I've worked at a C suite level as an executive assistant. And it's interesting, because people sometimes think of that as you know, just administrative work. But it's actually this really interesting, really right in the middle of everything, position and just get involved it in the heart of the organization, whatever organization I'm working on. And I love every minute of it, because I genuinely care about the people that I work with. And I care about the health of the overall organization. And exactly, you know, the nuts and the bolts of how all the logistics work to make things run efficiently and well. And well, quite frankly, make money and just be successful overall. And some of that is is vestiges of liking to be the hero, which was my role in our family growing up, I'm not that I got to do that a whole lot. But that was, that was a role that I took on when I was younger. And so there is some of that in there, I really do like to be the hero. And I often get to do that at work. But the role I have now is actually a little bit different, where it's at the personal executive assistants. So there's there's a little bit different focus, but it's a lot of the same thing, in that I'm constantly handling logistics and fixing problems, and I really love it. But it isn't something I went to school for I've gone to school, I've gone to do specific training in different skill sets, different areas and toyed around with the idea of getting an MBA, but it's not necessary for the work, it would just strictly be for my own satisfaction if I were to go back to school, but so school while it's something I actually really enjoy college quite a bit. That didn't lead me to a career, but it did give me some confidence to do it. Well, and then I've always been well read and fairly articulate and I think that was strengthened by just simply attending college for a couple of years.

The Recovering CEO  28:09  
Yeah, so it sounds like you found your way and you found your path which I think is wonderful. I love being the hero do you have a particular hero that you like like I know like do you watch those movies like Marvel or any of those all of them yeah all of that was your favorite love them

Michelle V  28:29  
all yeah my my husband would say this is big because of that many of our friends are a little bit like this is that I love Iron Man's absolute snark and ridiculousness and and even his self centeredness not that I would necessarily want to live with someone like that is highly entertaining to watch in movies. And I like my I like my heroes flawed.

The Recovering CEO  29:01  
Hmm, yeah, he definitely is Tony Stark. He's definitely that. I like his relationship though with Gwyneth. Forget her name in the shows. But yeah, she's a nice good relationship, I guess kind of,

Michelle V  29:14  
but who is your favorite?

The Recovering CEO  29:16  
Well, you know, I don't know. I just watched a three hour Batman the other day, which I know is not marvel. That's different, but it was good. Have you seen the new Batman?

Michelle V  29:27  
Actually, no,

The Recovering CEO  29:28  
I don't. Okay, it's streaming on HBO. But uh, it was gonna be I like I don't know, I watched that Shang chi recently the one you know, the, the news, Asian super, super cool movie. Yeah. Yeah, that was very fun. Yeah, my daughter is really into all that. More than me.

Michelle V  29:49  
Actually, this that is something my son and I tend to do together.

The Recovering CEO  29:55  
Yeah, which is super fun. Right. I think that's great. So it In your 20 years of business, have you seen addiction in the workplace? Does that ever come up? Or are you just kind of working? And then nobody bothers you with that? Do people ever come to you? And ask you your opinion? Or have you seen seen it?

Michelle V  30:15  
Actually just given the kind of workplaces that I've had in smaller businesses, or at least the people that I've physically worked with, because I, I've had remote team members, so that obviously, you don't have as much personal that gets just casually thrown about. But given the work environments, I haven't actually had a lot of that come up outside of myself. And, but I've been very clear with the people I work with that I don't drink, and I make sure they don't check, save a food allergy. So I've had actually to clarify that. Because I have a gluten allergy. So I once had someone tried to give me gluten free beer because he thought he didn't drink simply because of the gluten allergy. To separate things. So I just just makes it simpler if I let people know I don't drink. And I don't I don't in the workplace. I don't tell them why unless it comes up. If it comes up, I don't hide it. Especially after a number of years sober and and especially after I know people have worked with them for a period of time. But it actually has come up shockingly little. Because apparently, no one cares. No one really cares that I'm sober. Only because I am sober. Obviously, we both know that if I were not sober. I know that I would become unemployable fairly quick. And then they might care that I was not doing my job. But but because I am sober. No one that I worked with tends to care I have ever had people ask additional questions about why I didn't drink? Or if had I ever drank? Or did I just or is it something I've just never done? And after just answering a couple of questions, I guess I did used to drink and that's why I don't drink now. That that has been the end of the conversation. So it's actually not something that has come up in an opportunity to be of service in the workplace and other in other situations it has in with family, although with family that's that's always funny, because after I got sober the first few years, anytime there was conversation about anything happening with my cousins or any anybody, any drama in the family, they, they would just completely stop talking when I when I got anywhere in the vicinity, which I found hysterical, like I was somehow like, they just couldn't talk about somebody drinking around me or something. They were fine drinking around me, by the way. wouldn't talk about anything. That was really funny. But um, but in some other other situations with actually, something had come up with one of my children through their school and talking with a faculty member that I was able to turn them on to some resources for students they were trying to help. So things do come up socially. And I'm I'm open about my recovery when it's Sir, when it serves a purpose. But professionally, I am fairly careful about it, although, simply because I've been sober as long as I have. I'm not concerned that anyone will care. If they already know me know that I'm competent. No, but I am good at what I do. At that point. They won't care. I don't like people knowing professionally, when they don't have any additional information. So that's that's definitely something that I don't introduce into my workplace right off the bat. Because some people do have preconceived ideas, and I don't want that to get in the way. Right,

The Recovering CEO  34:20  
right. So, you know, there's a lot of young people coming in today. A lot of young women, do you, you know, through this podcast, you want to share any advice if someone's young and considering coming in here that might be able to help them?

Michelle V  34:38  
Absolutely. It was a huge help to me when I was able to connect with people that were close to my own age. And I had some wonderful people who were supportive. And like I said, these these people who just kind of took me under their wing in in Dearborn, where I first got sober. But I don't know that I would have stayed sober that I would have continued going to meetings. But there are so many more young people at meetings now some of that is simply because of treatment centers being available and, and some of it is just simply more awareness and, and things online. And people getting, having the ability to get information before actually darkening the door of a meeting, which seems very dramatic the first time you do it, it's it's pretty scary. But um, but there's so many more young people at meetings now. And there, there's just there's just so much more support and understanding of the fact that a 16 year old woman can absolutely be an alcoholic, and that women, our bodies actually tend to have negative effects due to alcohol and drugs quicker, because our bodies are just different, and some often smaller. And the way we process drugs and alcohol tends, it tends to cost us physically, sooner than it does men. But but really, it was that just having the ability to connect with women, which is funny, because I didn't want anything to do with women. Because the way I was raised and and through my own insecurities in use. I didn't I didn't trust many women in my life. But after I got sober, once I finally started to get to know some some young women and spend time with them. They're the ones that saved my life. They're the ones that really understood me in a way that no one else did. And that is what I would say is as soon as possible, as much as possible to seek out other sober young women. And if there's an opportunity, some that have a couple of years, sober time or more.

The Recovering CEO  37:05  
Yeah, I love that. You know, and I agree with you. It's, you know, coming into the rooms, it was a place where I'm like, you know, I'm not alone. There's others like me. And I also really liked how people shared in meetings, because it was very different than you hear anywhere else in the world. You know, nobody really talks like that. People in the outside world are always like, Oh, how you doing? I'm great. How are you? Fine, great smile, you know, but in meetings, they're really good. Real.

Michelle V  37:29  
Absolutely, yes. When when when I go to a meeting and another alcoholic asked me, How are you doing? They want a real answer. And they expect one. And that is amazing. Actually, it's funny because I've ever in the outside world. I had somebody asked me how I'm doing and I gave them a real answer and get interesting looks when you do that.

The Recovering CEO  37:51  
Right? I didn't really mean that.

Michelle V  37:55  
Because they backpedal out of the room. Yeah.

The Recovering CEO  37:57  
So Michelle, do you plan on sticking around? I mean, you've got how many 32 years now?

Michelle V  38:03  
3931. Okay,

The Recovering CEO  38:06  
so you have 31 years now? Do you plan on sticking around for the long haul? It's a win. And it's when it

Michelle V  38:13  
Yeah, I absolutely plan to continue to go to meetings for as long as I'm alive. I Alcoholics Anonymous is one of those things that it provides a framework for my life and my life is going to continue to happen. And situations change. I mean, when I was I might didn't tell I'll have to do the math as how many years how many years sober? Was I when I had my daughter? How many years sober? Was I when I got married? How many are so yeah, with each major life change. My life is different. And my experience is different. And what I need is different and the support and the help that I need just in the world is different. And so at every change everything that I need meetings and my community in recovery and every everything to do with continuing to attend meetings, I need that support. But it's it's interesting, because when I the first few years I was sober I thought of it as being something I needed. Like like I need to eat my vegetables, you know, I don't necessarily I've grown to like some but I don't necessarily want to work out I don't necessarily want to eat healthy, but I know I need to it was like that for a long time. But actually, I love going to meetings and I still need them and I feel that I always will but my favorite people are at meetings and and some of the most like hysterical people that I just honestly could just listen to for hours and you know My best friends that you know, those are the people that I see when I go. And it is such a gift to be able to connect with these people. And I, while I wouldn't necessarily have to give up all of those friendships, there's absolutely something would be lost, even if I were able to not go to meetings, but never never pick up another drink or a drug, my life would be significantly less rich. If I didn't go to meetings, but the truth is, I think that eventually I would drink again, if I quit going to meetings, but it's it, I go, but I go because I don't ever want to drink again. Because I know that would I would probably burn my life down prior to even picking up and that's I could definitely go into that more if you wish. But But I honestly, I would miss I would miss all the people and when at times when both of my children, you know, when when you have babies in the house, everything becomes about them because they're you're literally keeping them alive. Everything you do is. So there have been times in my life when I haven't gone to many, many meetings. And that got very isolating very quickly. And I really missed the people at the meetings. But I also missed that sense of purpose and belonging.

The Recovering CEO  41:29  
Okay, so you just said something, burning it all down? If I wanted to learn more, I mean, I am curious, because I think that might help help people like, What do you mean?

Michelle V  41:37  
Just that there are a couple of different circumstances under which I could imagine if I were to ever drink again, even after all these years, if I were to ever drink again, the two situations, you know, would be if I literally felt like my life was such a garbage heap that it didn't, nothing mattered. And the other is, well, I guess. Similarly, essentially, if I wanted to drink myself to death, because I don't believe there are any circumstances under which I could convince myself I'm not really an alcoholic. Because, as I mentioned earlier, of all the meetings, I've gone to over 31 years, I have never come out of a meeting and thought I can't relate to anything anyone said has never happened. There's always something I hear that just clicks and and as if somebody could hear hear things going on in my head that there was there's always been a connection in every single meeting I've ever been to. So there's there's no part of me that believes that maybe it was a mistake. Maybe I was really just young. And maybe it was normal experimentation. There's no part of me that believes that. But there is there is this voice is so quiet. But what if I'm not going to meetings if I'm not taking care of myself, if I'm just not? Well, it gets a little louder. And that voice tells me that I'm not good enough. Maybe I'm not. I'm not a good mother. I'm not a good friend. I'm not a good partner to my husband. I'm not a good employee. There there are 100 different ways that can manifest but but that that voice telling me that you know none of this really matters anyhow, that it will if I ever become convinced and so if I become convinced that I'm not good enough and that my any of the goods that I'm doing in the world isn't isn't doesn't matter isn't going to make a difference isn't going to help anyone if I actually believed that I would be burning bridges and and things in my life would become a giant mess before I ever picked up a drink. And that's that's what I mean. I said I'm I've said this before at meetings I'm fully capable of burning my life to the ground without ever picking up a drink. And that's what I mean by that. Is that that alcoholic behavior that happens long before we ever pick up a drink or a drug 100%

The Recovering CEO  44:10  
Yeah, a friend of mine you say that we're every choice we make is moving towards a drink or away from a drink. Absolutely. And if I go towards too often then I will drink enough so yeah, well, you know, I feel lucky that I know you right so we knew each other from a few meetings I think your shares are wonderful I love that you're still so involved with 31 years sober. I love that because a the program women coming up need positive influences. Guys need positive influences. You know, I think we all need people that we can say wow, they did it, you know, so I think it's really important to show up. So I'm really great for you to do that.

Michelle V  44:55  
i Well, you know, this i I've really in joyed your shares as well and I love hearing you talk about your family and for whatever reason fishing I don't know what that's about but you know, you will throw the occasional goofy story and but I, one of the one of the reasons why I actually I've always enjoyed connecting with you at meetings is because we laugh a lot. And I didn't laugh much before I got sober and was really sober not just attended a couple of meetings but really got involved in the program and I laugh a lot at meetings.

The Recovering CEO  45:35  
Yeah, it's good to have fun at meetings. I agree. It's my main social activity. kind of happens. Yeah, exactly. So, all right, well, so thank you, Michelle, for being on the recovering SEO podcast and I'm sure listeners are going to enjoy this and listeners. Thanks for listening. And I'm gonna say goodbye. I don't leave but we'll just say goodbye.

Michelle V  46:00  
We'll come back. Thank you for asking me to do this.

The Recovering CEO  46:03  
Thank you, Michelle.