Libby Nelson Life Coach Podcast

The Recovering CEO  0:29  
Hello, welcome everybody to the recovering CEO podcast. My name is Derek Mehraban, the recovering CEO have a very special guest here today a friend of mine from way back in college. Well, we didn't totally know each other in college, but she ended up marrying one of my best friends. And she's had an amazing journey since then we won't talk about how long that's been but it's a we both went to Michigan State University and her name is Libby cider Nelson. And she is a life coach. She is a spiritual person. She is in recovery. And, and she's a mom of three and she's just an amazing person. So how are you today? Libby?

Libby Nelson  1:10  
I'm good. I'm great. Derek, thanks so much for having me on. I do have to do a quick correction, which is that I myself did not go to Michigan State.

The Recovering CEO  1:20  
Wait, no, I really thought you did. I

Libby Nelson  1:23  
went to Northwestern. I went to Northwestern.

The Recovering CEO  1:25  
Oh, embarrassing. You know what? I knew that. Oh, my God, that's so embarrassing. That's okay. That's all right.

Libby Nelson  1:32  
I just I just in case any Western folks are listening. I don't want to, you know, deny my my true story. So it's all about rigorous honesty.

The Recovering CEO  1:41  
Thank you. No, thank you and to get go. And yeah, we have talked about this because the Michigan say please, Northwestern I remember now. I'm such a space.

Libby Nelson  1:51  
That's all right. That's all right. It's easy. When one bleeds green, it's easy to assume that all the rest of the world does too. And my husband was at Michigan State, as you know, so I'm surrounded by green. No worries. And it's a big, big basketball day for Michigan State.

The Recovering CEO  2:05  
It is yes, yes. Yes. Oh, awesome. So, so let me so you're on the recovering CEO podcast. And I started this because I wanted to raise awareness, especially in the workplace. And also I think there's a lot of people out there who may come into recovery from different means, you know, maybe be, maybe they don't realize they're an alcoholic, maybe they don't realize they have an addiction, you know, maybe they're just kind of struggling in life. And I think that sometimes they might stumble upon a podcast like this and say, oh, you know, this, this resonates me this makes sense. And you were very interesting to me that not only because I know you, but because you're kind of a life coach. And you actually, you yourself have been sober enough for a while. Can you tell us a little bit about your story and how you got there?

Libby Nelson  2:49  
Sure, absolutely. Yeah, I've been sober since January of 2014. And my path, and I had become a coach about two years before that. So just a little bit about my story. And I come from a long line of folks who have coped with alcohol. Like so many of us have those of us in recovery and not in recovery. And, you know, for me, personally, I wasn't a huge drinker. During my high school days, I really was focused on school, and I was very involved in theater and performing and achievement. And I really in college, and as I mentioned, I went to a school where achievement was really important. And it was a really competitive place to be it was really competitive in the theater program, it was really competitive academically, and I sort of went from being a big fish in a small pond in my high school to being a little fish in a much bigger pond. And, and I think that's when I look back, sort of when I started to use alcohol to just cope with some of those uncomfortable feelings, you know, questions about who am I? Why am I here? What's special about me? How am I different, and it wasn't in a compulsive way. But I think and I think we'll talk about this probably in the podcast, you know, humans use all different kinds of things to mute the excruciating reality of being alive. You know, and I mean, I think we turn to all different kinds of things and your podcast, you know, talks about that, you know, we turn to alcohol, we turn to chopping sugar, sex, drugs, you know, fill in the blank. And so, for me, I think that's just really the first time where I started trying to sort of mute down some of these deep feelings of of discomfort and not enoughness that probably had been percolating, you know, for a long time. So fast forward you know, I have my story is not super interesting. You know, I haven't had a my recovery story is not super interesting. I progressively used alcohol more and more to cope, I had three babies in two and a half years. I have twins in there. So I'm not quite superhuman. But yeah, it was a lot I was I had a spouse have a spouse who at the time traveled a lot and worked really long hours. And I had no tools for self care, I had no tools for boundaries, saying no, taking time to sort of take care of myself in any meaningful way. And I think we get self care wrong a lot in our culture, it's one of the things I talk about a lot in my work is we kind of think it's manicures and vacations. And while that is great, actually, self care really shows up for most of us on a day to day level in terms of boundaries, addressing some of our character default settings, like perfectionism, people pleasing, and I think a lot of women, especially in women in business, are very culturally groomed, you know, to feel that perfection is the route to success. So anyway, long short, I just got to a place where I was using wine every night to, to recover from and it was the only method I had for self care. So, you know, be set by need work personal kids, life, aging parents, you know, all day, and then I would get my kids to bed, and I would open the wine and pass out on the couch. You know, by the end of the night. I mean, it just got to where this was a daily compulsive behavior. And the fact is that I'm super fortunate that I didn't have a bottom That was

Libby Nelson  6:45  
shocking, that made any headlines, I, you know, I have a lot of things that I got off the train, the train was hurdling, to a really on desirable destination, I had seen it and other members of my family and I was able to fortunately, because of the way they paved the path for recovery before me, I was able to get off the train, before I hit anything too terrible, you know, the things that took the most hit, were my own sense of self worth. My own sense of integrity and integrity, we talk a lot about values and coaching. Value. Integrity is my number one value. And I just felt like how could I show up each day teaching and sharing this work that I believe in so much, and then numb myself, you know, into oblivion each night, get up the next morning bogged down by regret, shame, guilt and feeling like whoa, and, and do the work I did and look, myself and other people in the eye. So anyway, I've been talking a lot. But but about eight, eight years ago, eight and a half years ago, I just decided that I couldn't keep doing that and and find any self respect. And so I pursued, you know, pursued recovery with the support of a lot of amazing people who had paved the way before me a lot of amazing women. And I still am very active in my recovery on a day to day basis today. And the rest is history, I guess.

The Recovering CEO  8:20  
Yeah. Yeah, that sounds Yeah, well, no, I love that. And thank you for your vulnerability and for sharing that. I think that's really important for people to hear. You know, I was so happy when, because we've known each other for a long time, right. And as I saw you, you got sober. And then you were like, so positively posting about it and sharing your experience and, and the love and support that you got from your network was amazing, you know, and I think it was amazing. It was amazing. It was beautiful. And really Libby, you've always been one of the prime examples, you know, I always think of connection as the opposite of addiction. And you have a really good job of connecting with people and I think you've built a really strong network, you know, obviously the women you coach and then your whole community you know, you do book clubs and whatnot. Can you speak about how connections important in your life? And is that what are the values that you talk about at all in your coaching?

Libby Nelson  9:10  
Yeah, absolutely. Connection is is in my top three, you know, top three values for sure. Right up there with integrity and growth, you know, are kind of my my top three at least for now our values change might change over time. But yeah, you know, I think when we are in actively using whatever our numbing tool is, we are desperate for connection to your point and and I love that work by government Taize work around connection and addiction. I think it's it's so vital because for me, I I've always been a people person and I've always had wonderful friendships and supportive family. I grew up in a really wonderful family and with a lot of connection but when I was drinking so much I hit that side of myself. You know, actually, Derek, a lot of my really close friends were surprised that I told them I was getting into recovery because my people pleasing and perfectionism kept me at home drinking wine on the couch, you know. And so there was this whole part of me that I was carrying around and coping mechanism that I didn't share with anybody. And it really helped me along in my feelings of isolation. And, like this sense that if people really knew me, would they still love me? And would they still care about me if they knew that this is, you know, what I was, how I was spending my time. And so anyway, I think now, a really important part of my recovery is being in real, authentic relationships, and sharing my story. And I really think, you know, we talk in coaching a lot about stories and a lot about narrative. So all of us have stories that guide the way we move through the world, the stories that come from our families of origin, or communities of faith, or schools or cultures, or ethnic cultures. And, you know, for me, I think when we craft the narrative that we want, that we believe we bring other people along for the ride. So there is a there is a cultural narrative that to have struggle with addiction to struggle with some of these undesirable behaviors is shameful. It's something that we should sort of cover up and and say, What about these other things and sort of skirt around, but I really think that when we're transparent, like you're doing through this podcast, you know, when we're transparent about our stories, and that's not always easy to do, right. In the moment when we're struggling, you know, I think, oftentimes, we have to be a bit on the other side to talk with authenticity about that. But I think the more we're able to do that, and to say to people, hey, it's possible to be connected, you know, loved successful, build a beautiful life, and have this be part of the story when we're inclusive, instead of exclusive about sort of some of those more ugly, you know, parts of ourselves. And everybody, it's like, Brene Brown, I teach and facilitate Brene Brown's work, and she says, you know, the two most powerful words when we're in struggle, are me too. And to know that we are alone, we are not alone in our struggles of being human. And that kind of connection is so life giving, and now I can't imagine my life without it. You know, it's my net. My people are everything. You know, my people are everything second to my recovery, you know, and spirituality. And then it's my people and the connections with them. I'm curious how connection has been a part of your, your path, Derek and your recovery story?

The Recovering CEO  12:53  
No, I appreciate that. Livia, you know, so, I'm gonna answer that. You know, you brought up one thought just real quick about, you know, the movie eight mile with Eminem. Right where I'm sorry. Yeah, it's a wonderful movie. You know, being from Detroit. I know. You're from Philly. Philly is more Meek Mill. But Eminem from Detroit. But, but in a mile, Eminem in the rap battle, he talks about, he says everything about himself, that would be a put down. So he, he fully becomes vulnerable. And amidst all of his character defects, and all of his shortcomings, and he takes away the power from anyone else to ever say anything about him because he said it all himself, right. And I think that when we admit our vulnerabilities, then it gives us the feeling to be able to walk with, you know, there's nothing to hide, right? And then nobody can hurt us. Yeah. And nobody can hurt us. And, um, but the connection thing is getting out ahead of it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And my daughter still have not watched that movie, which is shocking to me, but they will want these days. I have a big list of movies that their kids to watch that the kids will watch. Godfather. You're not alone. Yeah. But, um, so yeah, the connection. You know, it's so interesting, like, just recently, and so I've been sober, you know, over 25 years, right? And, I mean, I'm 49 years old. And I feel like I keep peeling layers of the onion and learning about myself, right? I mean, this, it's a lifelong journey. And as you know, in recovery, we keep working towards the perfect idea, which is God, and I will never get there. You know, so it's like a journey. And some people also talk about like, a journey to my true self. That's another way to look at it. But it's a lifelong journey, you know, so, the connection thing just recently, I realized that sometimes I would never want to play games. Okay, that's just one example. I've never want to play games. You know, my family is big on games. At the holidays, they want to play upwards, scrabble boggle. Any game you know and and I would always say no, no, no, I'm not gonna play you guys. Go ahead, go without me. Because I really wanted to kind of check out I wanted to watch TV I wanted to do so. So my phone I wanted to be kind of off in lala land and fantasy, or I just wanted to be alone. And I realized that that was a slight form of addiction. And once I played games, and once I realized that I'm like, oh my god, what I am playing a game. I am 100% engaged with everyone around me. I'm not thinking about anything else. And this is like a perfect example of connection for me. That was just such a light bulb Libby happened, like for Wow. You know, yeah, yeah.

Libby Nelson  15:28  
What a beautiful metaphor for sort of life and how we are so tempting. It's so tempting to sort of step back and opt out, you know, even when people are calling us forward. And my hat is off to you for saying yes to the family game nights, because I personally do not find myself fully engaged in a game when I'm in it. I'm thinking, when is this over? Anyway, I think that's great. I love that I love and it's just, you're such an example, Derek of how the longer we stay in this work. And we have the awareness and we're awake enough to notice what's happening in ourselves how we just there's no limit to the growth, we can experience this beautiful lemon.

The Recovering CEO  16:10  
And you know, and it's interesting to me, because you being a coach, like you help people, right. So you take people who are here, and then you move them forward. And I love that. And I feel like that's a calling right. One of the reasons I started the recovering CEO is because I felt like, you know, my work is fine. You know, I help companies, I do all these nice things to make him prove people's businesses. But how am I really helping people? And I wanted to help it a little bit of a larger scale. Can you talk a little bit about that calling of helping people and how you knew is for you? And then some of the maybe explain a little bit how you move people forward? To growth? Sure.

Libby Nelson  16:47  
Well, you know, I will say, I think in a lot of ways, I've just always had a heart for connection and being of service. I'm an Enneagram, to for listeners that are familiar with the Enneagram, which is the helper, you know, on the Enneagram I, I'm a Myers Briggs, like every every test and personality style, and quiz sort of cues me up, you know, for this profession. So I come by it really honestly, and, and at the same time, I dabbled in other sorts of helping professions, I worked in social work earlier in my career, you know, I started as an actor, and, you know, growing up and then and then worked in social work for a number of years. And I stayed home for a few years when my kids were small. And then I hired a coach that a friend of mine had used to help me figure out what my next step career wise would be. And I applied to go back for a Master's, to become a therapist, and really thought I wanted to go that route, and then worked with this coach for six months. And at that point, outside of becoming a parent, I would now add recovery to this list. But it was the most transformative period of time I had ever spent in my life, this six month period of working with him again, outside of becoming a parent and later, recovery, you know, was an incredibly transformative and continues to be experienced for me. But I fell in love with the work. And one of the things I love about coaching is we, our core belief in coaching is that people are naturally creative, resourceful, and whole. We don't come at looking at people from a place of brokenness, no matter what they're dealing with. And there are absolutely people who are struggling with things that are not appropriate for coaching, you know, people who have unhealed traumas who want to do a lot of work, you know, looking at family of origin and past experiences, that sort of thing. Folks in active addiction are not great candidates for coaching. They can be but you really there's an assumed functionality in coaching where people are able to take meaningful steps and and I don't actually move people forward per se, what I do is believe that that person holds everything inside of themselves to move themselves forward. And I'm, I'm a midwife, not birthing the baby. So you know, it's it's listening deeply, it's asking powerful questions, it's helping the person to get where they say they want to go, sometimes somewhere different than they said they wanted to go hopefully better. And really unearthing some of those answers the person holds for themselves and also getting curious about what are the ways they self sabotage and hold themselves back, of course, addictive behavior and numbing is a big one. And sometimes we'll be going along to coaching and, and it will be revealed, sometimes quite a bit into the coaching process, somebody will come to a session and we're working on, you know, next steps for career or how they're going to cope following a divorce or some other I work primarily with men and women who are in the middle of really bright, high achieving folks who are in the middle of major life transition. So that can look like all different kinds of things from the quarter life crisis at 25 to moving into it Retirement, empty nest career change what have you, but I work with a lot of new and expectant parents, first time parents. So anyway, long short, and you know, sometimes somebody will come and we're working on this other thing, and they show up and they say, Well, I wonder if the fact that I'm drinking a bottle of wine every night might be getting in the way. We're getting in the way of me making this meaningful life change. And, and then we have an opportunity to say like, Yeah, well, it might, let's talk more about that, you know, let's, let's explore, you know, what, that's about how long that's been going on. And, um, you know, sometimes we we take a pause, and people head off to therapy, or they, you know, decide to get some treatment or address that and, and so anyway, that the coaching process is is always about showing up with what is being in the moment. Where are you? Where do you want to go? And, and just really, I think the most important quality for coaching is being curious. We always show up not knowing and we we work with what the client brings. And so curiosity is something that I have been obsessed with my whole life, you know, to your point, I am a reader, I share I know, Derek's wife for the listeners, and I have always shared a love of great books and or an online book group together. And anyway, so that natural curiosity has served me really well as a coach.

The Recovering CEO  21:21  
Mm hmm. Gosh, it's brings so many thoughts to mind. So many thoughts. You know, what one is I just, I'm gonna send you this book. I just interviewed the author of this book, and you have not read this heavy, the connected,

Libby Nelson  21:33  
connected leader? I haven't read that. No,

The Recovering CEO  21:35  
I'm gonna send you a copy. Thank you, I think I think you'll like it. Like, she's an interesting business coach, and she blends like the spirituality of recovery with you know, but she said, so many thoughts when you're talking and then my mind just went blank.

Libby Nelson  21:53  
Yeah, well, I, I tend to go and go. So he said, You have to stop me sometimes in the middle, if you

The Recovering CEO  22:03  
will. So there is a question I have so good. I know you spent a lot of your life as an actress actor. Have you taken any of your experience as an actor or knowledge and actor training? And use that in any of your coaching? Like is that? Does any of the things you learn there help with your coaching?

Libby Nelson  22:21  
Yes, yeah. Great, awesome question. First of all, I think when we study acting, whether we're doing it at the you know, as kids or or more advanced, you know, I studied acting in college. What we're learning is to step into another person's mind heart, we're, we're really getting curious about we're not acting as if we are trying to become, so it's really taking, in some ways empathy to the nth degree, because we're saying what does it feel like to look through this person's eyes and so I think people who are drawn to theatre are naturally building that skill of being able to to be with you know, another person and really have a deep amount of empathy, which I think is really key in coaching. The other thing that is interesting that you ask this because the model of coaching I was trained in is coactive. Model, CTI is the school and it's one of the oldest coach training schools you'll meet. You know, you can't swing a stick in the coaching world without hitting a CTI grad. But the CTI program was started in the 1990s by a couple of out of work actors in New York City. And it's really based on an improv model from the get go. And so there's a lot of in coaching, we don't come with a preconceived plan. Like, here's what we're going to talk about today. We work with what shows up. So the client might have planned to say like, oh, I want to report back on how my job search is going. But actually, I just got into this conflict this morning with my partner, and I just am really stuck here. So can we talk through this? So we work through what shows up? And there's not any preconceived questions. We don't go through like a list of accountability. The client speaks and just like improv, I asked questions, you know, much like this podcast is we didn't have a and now we're going to hit on this point, this point in this point. We are we are in dialogue. And that's really the heart of improv and great acting and also the heart of great coaching in my in my experience. Okay, great podcast.

The Recovering CEO  24:29  
Yeah, no, that's so cool. I love improv. You know, okay, I have to be honest here, because I've been thinking about going back for an MSW and this and that, and, yeah, actually, I missed the application deadline at Michigan State. They just told me nope, sorry, you gotta wait for another year. But and then I talked to you the day after I get that note from the director, because I'm like, bad at deadlines. And I really think maybe coaching might be better because even though I think I do feel like trauma plays a big role in addiction and trauma plays a big role. I don't necessarily need to solve that. But what I'm good at is kind of the improv back and forth, I think probably listening and getting people to talk about. So maybe I should look into CTIA, or something that's very interesting to me.

Libby Nelson  25:10  
Yeah, well, you know, off script, you know, anytime you want to talk about that, I think there is a, there is a real need for more men in coaching. And I think people who come from that recovery lens have something really unique and important to offer. And just a deep ability to be with whatever the client brings to the session, because we really never know what's gonna show up. You know, again, we think we're career coaching. And all of a sudden, you know, we're talking about some really intense stuff, you know, and so, yeah, I think you'd be great. Derek, I'd love to chat with you about it anytime.

The Recovering CEO  25:43  
I appreciate that. So the other thoughts that I remember now, so I've always thought like, so that there is sobriety, right, and there is like not drinking, that's pretty easy. Like, you don't pick up a drink. But then I think, is any of my behavior, something that I would not want my mother, for example, to be watching me do? Or my significant other, or my children? Or my grandmother or whatever, you know, like, like, what? Would I be comfortable telling this to my boss, you know, ever. And then, and when you go through that list, and then that's really more about, like you said, living with integrity. And you know, and one of the things I want to help people with is to be able to stand on your own two feet, Look, someone in the eye, not feel that shame, right? Because I know that yes, I am acting with integrity. And, but sometimes people aren't quite aware, like, even if they like just take a couple bucks from, you know, from someone or like, the small things can impact integrity, and until they become aware that that this behavior could be bothering me. I don't know. Do you ever get, you know, as you pit lair, the onion? Do you ever kind of get to those things that? I know you mentioned drinking a bottle of wine? And no, but I feel like there's so many examples?

Libby Nelson  26:54  
Totally. Yeah, I mean, I think there's so many, there's countless ways of being out of integrity with ourselves. Most of all, you know, and I think when you are in community with people in recovery, you hear people talk a lot about the little ways that even people with long term sobriety that sometimes some of these behaviors can creep in. And it's like, ooh, that's not really living with rigorous honesty, that's not really living in transparency and an integrity and so yeah, I mean, I think, I think for me, I think I Those are always a great sort of red flag that, oh, it's time to plug back in, you know, to get to work a little harder, you know, to dig a little deeper, because I think there are a lot of ways to you, you gave the example of shame, and wanting to help people rise out of that shame and be able to look people in the eye and I think, and absolutely, you know, that's our goal, and what are the ways and we all have our different barometers, I guess, for what out of integrity feels like for us. You know, for some people, it's something massive, you know, embezzling money from their workplace or, and having, you know, having an affair outside of a committed relationship or, you know, whatever it might be, for other folks. And it's more of a princess and the pea situation, you know, that we something feels off. And we have to correct that, in order to feel that serenity within ourselves. And I think for me, personally, and a lot of folks in recovery, the further along we get in the road, the more like the Princess and the Pea we are, the more we feel like, okay, I guess I better go back and make that right with that person. You know, I think I really need to revise that that I did, or, or sometimes I'm just not going to do that, again, I'm going to learn something from this experience of who I was or how I showed up. I mean, I had a thing a year or two ago, where I was just having a day and in my workplace. And I'd waited for this cable person all day and rearrange my schedule. And I called and I just let this woman who was not the cable person who was the scheduler just totally have it. Like I was someone I barely even recognize someone I hadn't seen for a long time. And I felt so badly after I got up, I kind of sat with it. I had a few minutes a moment meditation about it. And then I call back and said, Hey, I just really need to apologize for how I behaved. This is a really frustrating situation. And no matter how frustrating it is, my behavior was not acceptable. And I want to take accountability for that. I'm really sorry that I did that to your day. And the person was so shocked. She was like, oh, oh, it's okay. No one has ever called me that you know, but but for me, otherwise it would have like sat like a something in my teeth, you know, all day. And so it was part of and I think I hope I'm not getting off into 10 Hear, but I think the longer we're sort of in this reality of being in recovery, the more we kind of hit the reset button for ourselves, not for the woman who expected a call back or deserved one, but so that I can move through the rest of my day and not then take this shame spiral and then bark at my kids and, you know, yell at my spouse and eat a dozen cupcakes, or whatever my sort of way of coping with that discomfort is,

The Recovering CEO  30:28  
yeah, very, very insightful. Libby. And it really that's 10 step, right. So when we were wrong, promptly admitted it like, as as a person in recovery, you know, they talked about the Grouch, and the brainstorm is a luxury we can't afford, which means I can't be that asshole all the time, because I just can't live that way. So I have to like clean the slate daily, right? Yep. And that's all we can really do is control ourselves, right? Or, like, clean our side of the street? I can't control anyone else. But uh, yeah, yeah, I just listed open talk today. And the guy was saying, you know, a lot of people come to him when they can't stay sober. Because they think he can help them. And he says, You know what he said, I want you to get before I talk to you, I want you to get two weeks of continuous sobriety. Before I'll talk to you. Because if I talk to you now, it's not going to stick. And he sends them off on their way. When he says, it's amazing how many people actually get the two weeks because they really want to talk to each other. That was interesting. I know. Right?

Libby Nelson  31:28  
Yeah, whatever it takes, right.

The Recovering CEO  31:31  
Yeah. You know, and I think setting boundaries is actually something I kind of struggle with, like, is there any like, like, I'm actually helping, I don't know, if you remember my cousin who was dealing with addiction and mental illness, I came to Seattle. Yeah, brought him back. Well, he's still been struggling, he's still been struggling. And you know, he just got out of the hospital again. And, you know, I took him to a meeting. But he's like, drinking in between meetings, you know, and struggling. And it makes me think, you know, this isn't really good. And I don't even totally feel right. At driving them around, or, you know, giving them cigarettes and stuff. How do you How does someone say, How do I set boundaries? Like, how do I set boundaries, where, you know, say, maybe you don't get a week sober? And then call me, you're gonna make it just do that, you know, because he thinks he can't not drink? So he drinks in between meetings? And I, it seems hopeless, you know, but how does it? How does a person set boundaries? Do you have any general tips on that?

Libby Nelson  32:27  
Yeah, I do, you know, boundaries. And there are all kinds of ways of holding boundaries. And and I think all of us have sort of our trigger areas where holding boundaries is a little more difficult, especially people have deep empathy. You know, we want to we don't want to feel like we're abandoning people. And yet, you know, all boundaries really are is saying what's Okay, and what's not okay, for us. And we are the self reference point. And I think this can be really tricky for people in recovery, because I think there's a message in a lot of 12 Step work that service service service, and we sort of make a hero of people who surrender their entire lives to service. And and I think that balance is important, you know, I think part of good boundary setting is actually self referencing. And maybe if you're not, if you don't, if you're not real reliable with yourself, maybe it's checking in with somebody who, you know, whose wisdom you admire and saying, hey, you know, I'm feeling like, I want to set this boundary with this person, because it's just killing me to see this person drunk all the time. Or I'm wondering if I'm enabling this person by helping them have as few consequences as possible, you know, for their behavior. So sometimes means I think, for me checking in with somebody wiser than myself, or who has an outside perspective, who can help me with that. And then I think, but I think we are a part of the equation, I think boundaries are about what's okay and what's not okay for us. And somebody who was less close to the person you're talking about, might not have an issue, setting a boundary that because of a relationship, we feel like, oh, maybe I really need to, or maybe I don't, I think I think part of is taking a step back. And just asking ourselves, How much control do we really have here? So for example, a dear mentor of mine in recovery likes to say, if you wanted to, if, if someone tried to talk you into drinking, is there anything anyone could say, to make you drink? And I said, No. And she says, if you really wanted to drink, and were desperate for it, and had made up your mind to drink, is there anything anyone could say to you, that would change your mind? And the answer is really, no, you know, I mean, until the person has that, you know, openness, willingness, an open mind, honesty, willingness and open mindedness. You know, they are So we have less control than we think we have. So I think then when it comes back, if I can't change another person, then what do I need to do to make this work for me and to be able to be a sustainable support for this person? You know, because if setting a boundary means that I can continue the relationship in some capacity, that's probably far preferable than getting burnt out and saying, I'm done, you know, I'm out. So I think that was sort of a complex answer. And it's unique to each situation. But I think our kids test our boundaries all the time, right? You know, they, they ask us to do things that we're not really comfortable with. And sometimes we have to revise our boundaries. Sometimes we say yes. And then we circle back and say, You know what, I've thought about it some more. I know, I said, I would drive you to meetings, but I'm really feeling like, until you string some time together. I I'm going to need to take a step back from this situation. And we don't need to give people a lot of reason why or make the blame them or make it shame. But we can just set that boundary unapologetically. And honestly, at the end of the day, it's modeling good self care. And, you know, boundaries enable, empower other people to set boundaries. So thank you my two cents for today,

The Recovering CEO  36:15  
free course free coaching tip. No, I really like that. Let me share a concept with you. And then I want to hear your feedback on it. Because this concept again, kind of blew me away. And I know we've gone over 30 minutes, right? That's very interesting to me. Okay, great. I was reading a book recently, and it was talking about trauma. And it said that, you know, if you experience trauma at a young age, then you're you spend the rest of your life in pain management. And they meet a young age, like from the age of two or four, if something bad happens to you, then you spend the rest of your life or under two. Yes. Yeah. What do you think about that? That kind of blew my mind to think that babies spend their life in pain management? Yeah.

Libby Nelson  36:53  
Yeah, I mean, I, I don't, I would have to read more about that specific book. But it makes sense to me. I mean, I think that we are all about survival, you know, human beings. That's how we're wired. We're wired to stay alive, you know, kind of at all costs. And we will take no prisoners to do that. And so I think if we experience deep trauma and pain from a young age, then it is actually a coping and survival mechanism to give ourselves what we think we need to keep keep an eye on, you know, and so that makes sense to me. I think that unhealed on process trauma. That's particularly true. I think that with really good support and deep therapeutic work and recovery work, if it's somebody who's struggling, you know, with addiction, of course, not everybody who has trauma ends up in addiction, of course, but we're much more, you know, we're definitely we're there's a lot of us for sure, you know, with with traumatic backgrounds, and big T traumas, as they say, you know, wars and, and that sort of thing, and also little T traumas, small things that on the outside, you know, might not look like much, but at our whatever, that young formative age were really impactful for us. So I'd say yes, that makes sense. And there is hope for finding a different way to self soothe, finding a different way to care for ourselves, that is much more productive and less maladaptive than, you know, just grabbing the closest thing, you know, whether that's eating or, or using or getting caught up in other people's stuff or, or whatever it might be.

The Recovering CEO  38:41  
Yeah, yeah. Lady, I'm really enjoying talking to you and you froze for a second there, but hopefully,

Libby Nelson  38:47  
I think we might be frozen. Yeah, hopefully. Okay. Yeah, you did, too.

The Recovering CEO  38:51  
Yeah, sorry about that. Can you hear me now? Okay. Great. But yeah, no, it's very, it's very good. So I'm just trying to think what else we could say to wrap this up, you know? Sure. What can what you know, I know, you said you, you have a bunch of clients, you know, you kind of you're busy, right? So you're not really looking for clients here just came on here to support me and have a conversation. Anything else?

Libby Nelson  39:19  
They're always looking for clients. Okay. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I, I'll tell you, you know, I'm similar to folks in recovery, the clients that I want to work with our clients who are ready to work, you know, there are clients who say, for whatever reason, my life is not tolerable the way that it is anymore. Whether that's the relationship the job the the feeling inside myself, health, you know, you name it, there's, there's all kinds of ways that we can sort of get set up with ourselves to a point where we think, Okay, I got to try something different because what I've been trying has hasn't been working for me, so You know, so So absolutely, if those folks are out there and they're listening, I'd love to hear from you and see if we might be a match. And, and my also my, my coaching network is broad. And so oftentimes people will get in touch with me and they say, you know, I really am interested in in weight loss and doing something around this, you know, can you help me I don't coach around weight loss, I have my own sort of complicated history with, with food and, and as many folks women in recovery especially do but I have clients that I will refer folks out to other people or, you know, people who have different specializations we are we, we are a connective network, you know, us coach folks. And so I absolutely would love to hear from folks. And really, I would just say, you know, that in terms of, you know, kind of, I don't know, parting thoughts that, you know, if you're listening to a podcast like this, you're probably listening because either you identify with the story of recovery, or maybe you're hungry for that, or you're hungry for something different in your life, it's life and you can trust yourself. As far as that goes, you know, you can, you can pay attention to the still small voice that says, What if there's something better out there for me, and you have what you need to access the right supports, to move yourself to a place where you can live your life with more joy, serenity, purpose, meaning. So Derek, thanks for having me on. I so appreciate you doing this work and putting it out into the world. And it's just been an honor and really fun to talk with you today.

The Recovering CEO  41:36  
Oh, thanks, Libby. It's great to see you all the way across the country in Seattle. And that's right. It's been too long. So let's get a win tonight. And maybe we can do this again. You know, in a few months or six months once we get some more exciting we can revisit so thanks for your time and thanks, everyone for listening. Sounds great. Thanks for being on the recovery. See ya

Libby Nelson  41:56  
see ya. Thanks, Derek. Bye.