Karen J. Hardwick, The Connected Leader, 7 Strategies to Empower Your True self and Inspire Others

The Recovering CEO  0:29  
Hello, and welcome to the recovering CEO podcast video podcast today we have a very special guest, author, business coach, psychotherapist, everything. I mean, she wrote an amazing book called The Connected leader. Her name is Karen Hardwick and Karen, how are you today?

Karen Hardwick  0:47  
Derek, it is wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.

The Recovering CEO  0:51  
Yes, thank you. I forgot your middle name joy, which is very appropriate, because this book honestly gave me a lot of joy. Wonderful, wonderful. love hearing that. Yeah. Yes. So thank you. Sure. Thank Karen. So you know, as you know, and I, the recovering SEO podcast is about helping people in recovery. But it's really about connection, your book, The Connected leader, seven strategies to empower your true self and inspire others really talks about connection. And you know, from my experience, connection is the antidote to addiction. You know, when I am in addiction, that I'm alone, but when I'm connected and living in the light, then I'm really able to flourish. And tell us a little bit about about your book and how it all began and curious to hear.

Karen Hardwick  1:38  
Oh, it was a long journey. And I agree with you connection is the antidote to addiction. Because when we're in our addictive processes, man, oh, man, we actually get really stuck into our stinking thinking. And we can believe the lies that the disease tells us. And so I wrote this book, for many reasons, I wrote it as a way to connect more deeply with myself. It's largely a memoir, peppered in along with stories from my practice as a leadership consultant. So being in recovery myself, this is what I've learned, I practice in my leadership consulting, the principles that we practice in our recovery. So it says practice these principles in all your affairs, right. And so what I know from recovery is the same thing I'm learning as a leadership consultant with clients all over the globe. regardless of our position in life, it is the connection we have with ourselves, that determines the well being that we experience and that we can create in others. So if we are slowly killing our souls with secrets, hustling for approval, leveraging control, looking for some outside solution, we are leapfrogging over our true self. Oh,

The Recovering CEO  3:08  
well, I love that. And, you know, it's so interesting for me, because in some of your stories, you talk about some of these great leaders, like, you know, a lot of great leaders and a lot of great CEOs. And we can talk about that more later, because that's very interesting to me. But um, and then when you raise these concepts to them, teaching them to connect with themselves, which then allows them to really lead with more power and empathy and humility. I mean, that is such a powerful concept. Is it almost a surprise for some of them when they learn these concepts?

Karen Hardwick  3:43  
It is, and it's certainly not like we're flipping a switch and they see the light and they're like, Yay, thank you for coming into my office and turning my world upside down. It is, as with anything that is about finding our true self. It's a process. And as you and I both know, it's progress, not perfection, right? It's connection, not perfection. So what I like to say to people is regardless of your signs of success, the car you drive, the money you make, the title you hold, there is something inside of you, that needs to be addressed. So we're not leaders having a leadership crisis. In many ways. We're leaders having a human being crisis, Derek, and I'm sure you see this in your own work. It's the very thing that is creating the great resignations of the great resignation didn't just happen. We didn't just wake up one morning, with boatloads of people leaving their jobs. We created the great resignation by ignoring the humanity in our workplaces. Whether we did that in little ways, or in big ways, so most leaders find the process that I bring to them different. It's not a checklist. We're not after some kind of process, what I invite leaders to do is to dig deep into themselves, to do the healing that they need to do to address their flaws. And then to bring that to their teams to create true transformation, and not just information. Mm hmm.

The Recovering CEO  5:31  
Yeah, I love that. And so this book came out, really not too long ago, you know, so I imagine even your with your research and work, you saw how the pandemic and how the work from home and like you talked about this great resignation, affected people? Do you feel that there was some trauma from the pandemic? And how is it impacting some of your business clients?

Karen Hardwick  5:54  
That's a good question. Thanks for asking that. Yes, of course. It's definitely impacting how, what it's doing. Let me back up for a minute. What it's doing is it's allowing people to reflect differently. So what I see a lot with my senior level executives, CEOs and others on that same kind of level, as they're asking themselves questions that perhaps they wouldn't have asked otherwise. So the pandemic was an invitation to reflection. I don't believe as a psychotherapist, and as a leadership consultant that the pandemic caused, the struggles we're seeing, you know, we have been plagued by the usual suspects, depression, anxiety, addiction, for decades, just decades, we have definitely seen an uptick in those. And we can ignore the role that the pandemic played. But honestly, it was a crisis waiting to be had. I mean, you and I both know, I mean, the addiction statistics are staggering these days. But in all laced in everything, it's it's just a travesty. And I actually believe that addiction is the real epidemic. And I'm hoping that the COVID pandemic shines a light on that. Oh, think it is.

The Recovering CEO  7:27  
Wow, wow. You know, I love that because, you know, I've been sober a long time, and I know you have 25 years for you. Is that accurate?

Karen Hardwick  7:39  
I'm trying to do the math in my head. 18 years, I've been in recovery.

The Recovering CEO  7:43  
Okay. 18 years, I apologize. Yes, I've been sober. 25 years from drugs and alcohol, which is great, you know, but I still been working on recovery. And it's interesting, because addiction, or really the desire to be loved, you know, that there's always that thing inside that, you know, if we never quite heal it, then we always try and fill it with different things. For some people, it's workaholism. Drinking too much coffee, playing golf every day gambling, sex, you know, food, it just comes out sideways. And I've realized that it takes daily work, you know, and here I am at 49 years old, and starting this podcast because, and then so happy that I get to meet someone like you. And when I read your book, I was like, Oh, my gosh, she figured it out. Like she she put it into words, you know, because what I've learned is that connection is the key. And it's just so clear. I don't know it was so it was so powerful for me. You know, I don't know. Please, share. I want to hear more from you.

Karen Hardwick  8:46  
Oh, thank you, Derek. I want to unpack a little bit of what you said, writing the book was powerful for me. I mean, really, this book rewriting this book really kicked my ass? Because it pulled me into a deeper reflection on my self. So many leaders who read the book are saying, Wow, I mean, there's a lot of you in this book. And I don't know any other way to bring people into healing, other than to use ourselves as instruments to tell our story, right? We know that in the rooms. When we walk into the rooms. It could be for the very first time that we feel Oh, wow. I'm not alone. You too, I thought it was just me. So when we hear people's stories, even if we don't relate to every single detail, we get the essence of it. And if nothing else, I want people to start thinking about it connection differently. I want people to know that connection has to start with themselves and in that connection to themselves. They usually come across some kind of a spiritual relationship, some sense of a higher power. So that self and a higher power start working together. And we can give up this struggle for control. And putting our ego that is usually fueled by fear, we can start putting our ego in the driver's seat, and we can start welcoming a sense of humility and gratitude, and even leaders, CEOs of publicly traded company are finding that there is some truth and power in connecting deeply to themselves. Yes, yes, in that. Please, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead.

The Recovering CEO  10:56  
Well, not I love the, I love the concept of connecting with a higher power. And, and it's interesting, because I always thought a higher power was something outside of myself, but there's also a different way to look at it, which is connecting with the higher power that is within or the true self, you know, because I believe we all have this true self, which is pure and good, and perfect. And that gets changed and mutated and often hurt, you know, through growing up in different difficulties in life, bullying, you know, different types of neglect or things that happen. And that search to come back to that is quite the journey. So is that part of your process is taking people on that journey.

Karen Hardwick  11:41  
So when we connect to ourselves, it really is a lifelong journey right there. I mean, absolutely, it's not a one and done, it's not a check the box process, do these five things, and you'll be fine for the rest of your life. For instance, the steps we work in recovery are not meant to just be something we think about once, when we first become sober, when we first recover from whatever it is we're recovering from. It's a life long guide. And so I do take leaders and their teams and entire organizations through a very deep self discovery process, where people are encouraged in a very safe way to leverage their strengths to really understand what their gifts are, who they were designed to be. And also to address their flaws. Because it's the flaws. Hmm, man that get in our way, and trip us up, unconsciously, intentionally. I had a CEO the other day talking about his flaws, and how he's working on becoming more focused on how they show up, and how they land on the people around him. So it's a process, and that a lot of organizations and I'm sure, you know, this, and I'm sure a lot of our listeners do, a lot of organizations will embark on a process, and it will go something like this, let's focus on all the things that are wrong in our culture. And so there's a long laundry list of all the things that they need to talk about all the normalized defects, so to speak. And what I want them to do instead is start focusing on the are their own inner worlds, their individual flaws, the things that they do that they leapfrog over, but that might cause harm to others and to themselves. And once they start to do that, what gets embedded in the cultural DNA, or the things that they're looking to create trust, while being psychologically safe places. And that what that's what stems the tide for the great resignation. So people are not leaving workplaces, they're leaving managers. They're leaving toxic cultures that don't just bring up the toxic cultures are created by individuals. And it's not until the individuals change, that the cultures will change. Alright,

The Recovering CEO  14:23  
that 100% Makes sense to me, Karen. And it was interesting when you're talking about the list of all the things that are wrong with our culture that's really outwardly fixing things. But when I truly look at myself, and if I'm honest, and had the humility, you know, I always say, one of the greatest gifts of sobriety is the gift of awareness. Right? When I'm in my addiction, I'm really unaware of how I impact people in a bad way. But when I'm able to get that clarity, so then I write down these are the things and then, you know, in recovery, it teaches us to kind of turn it over, you turn it over to higher power. So once I acknowledge it really That's a problem, then that means I really shouldn't do it anymore. And I also can't do that alone, because it's very difficult. So I use maybe a business coach or higher power or sponsor to kind of help me and move me forward. Is that? Is that at all similar to what some of the things you're doing with people?

Karen Hardwick  15:19  
Yeah, absolutely. Derek, thanks so much for bringing that up. Connection is not a do it yourself, enterprise. So I believe we heal in relationship, and we heal in community. The idea is finding a tribe that absolutely lifts our vibe, that helps us to be healthy. And that means that in that tribe of people, whether it be a business coach, a sponsor, beloved, and trusted family members, friends, whoever's in that group, they have to be truth tellers. Like I talk about in my book a great deal, how we learn to give feedback to each other. So we do that with empathy, and accountability. And by listening deeply, and yet, before we can do that with others, we have to turn those very gifts toward ourselves, we have to learn to be empathetic toward ourselves, we have to hold ourselves accountable, we can't, we can't sidestep the things we've done that we need to make amends for. So I agree with you completely connection has to happen. In a trusted community. This is not a self help process. It's healing in relationship.

Karen Hardwick  16:46  
Yeah, and how nice, how nice is it? Or how nice would it be to work at a place and to be part of a community, because I feel like the work community is very important, right? We spend most of our lives there a lot of our day. And to have that community be a loving, trusting place where I'm fully accepted, where I know that my team is doing their best, I'm doing my best. And I think that's kind of what every company would strive towards, in a way.

Karen Hardwick  17:15  
And it has to be something more than just inspirational words on a poster in the break room, right? I know cultures, whether they be privately held family owned businesses, or publicly traded companies, I know and I'm privileged to work with them, cultures that do create that sense of well being for their employees, that there are leaders whose teams truly feel purposeful, seen and lifted up when they come to work. So leaders who can lead with empathy, and research is showing that one of the big things about the great resignation is, again, people are leaving leaders who are not empathetic. And I'd like to talk about empathy as first it starts with ourselves. So we have to show it to ourselves. And once leaders learn to be compassionate toward themselves, and share that feeling with their teams, it doesn't mean that accountability goes out the window. People who are empathetic, learn to hold people accountable as well. It empathy doesn't mean we rush it. And I mean, here's here's codependency at its best, right? rushing in to fix somebody else to rescue them to save them from their own consequence. You know, the family disease of addiction creates that very situation. And I see codependency in, in business cultures as well, bosses, who understand that one of their employees is going through a hard time and rush in to do their work for them. Leaders can learn to have empathy, and also hold people accountable. So none of this is again, as I said before, easy solutions. But it's a process that we can do together. And that really raises the sense of connection and well being in the workplace.

The Recovering CEO  19:18  
Mm hmm. Yep. Yep. And some of the success stories in your book, were just amazing, you know, and one thing that I really enjoyed Karen is watching these some of these leaders, and as they go through the process, they realize, you know, I could probably connect better with my significant other, you know, my spouse, my partner, I probably could be a better father or better mother, and they take these things and they're able to build connection with with their family, which really is part of the key right? Because again, work work health and happiness is very important. And then home happiness. I think it's similar symbiosis, right. So you want to connect with your spouse and kids. It's better to which will then make you more effective leader in the business world.

Karen Hardwick  20:05  
Yeah, absolutely, Derek, obviously, if things are rounded at home, it's easier to come to work. When there's family emergencies and chaos, whatever is causing that, it's very difficult to have the focus that we need at work. And I've been through a number of incidences like that as my husband was dying from Alzheimer's, when my family is dealing with addiction issues, whatever the case may be, I'm very open. To a certain extent with my clients, I like to role model appropriate vulnerability. Because when we as leaders show up in a way that tries to communicate that we've got it all together, and everything's perfect, it does not help the people around us, what helps the people around us is when we can show up with a discerning sense of vulnerability. And we can share our stories in a way that invites other people to know that we are fully. And that's what starts to really create a deeper sense of connection. So we don't need another leadership paradigm, what we need as leaders to do is to show up with our full messiness, and stories, and the ability to say to others I am struggling to. And that's why I know that I can help you find your way. Yeah, a lot of leaders that you mentioned, the leaders in my book who have had some successes, it's interesting, because none of this happens for any of us overnight. It is this whole self discovery process that enhances connection is a process. It's a journey.

The Recovering CEO  22:04  
Yeah, so I'm actually, it's so interesting to me what you do, Karen, because, you know, so I started the recovering CEO podcast, I mean, I've run a company, a small digital agency for the last 16 years, you know, I've worked with lots of companies, I've done startups, and but I had a strong urge to help others. And I realized, I think that, like you said, addiction is a real problem in the workplace, it's sometimes not talked about, you know, and they and people have problems, people lose jobs, they lose careers, their families, and nobody ever really wants to talk about the root cause, which was the addiction or the trauma that they had. So I'm trying to raise awareness, you know, for companies and then raise awareness for people who may not even know they have an addiction. And then I see what you're doing, you know, and I'm actually debating going back to school to get an MSW, right, because I was an advertising business major, right? Not at all, social worker, you know, counseling. But I want to do that, because I want to understand better so I can help better, right? And if I understand it better than I can be more of use to others. But how did you do it? Because you are a psychotherapist, and you became a business coach. Now you're an author. And you're kind of blending it all together in this beautiful mixture? I mean, because I'm very curious, how did you do it?

Karen Hardwick  23:18  
I really feel like I have the best job in the world. And this is certainly not work for me. First of all, it's really purposeful. I actually believe that it plays to my gifts quite easily. I was raised in a family where I learned that my value was about taking care of other people. In my own recovery as an adult now, I've learned to also take care of myself. So I took those formative messages that I got, in my childhood as a result of a lot of grief in my childhood, like carrying your value is about making everybody else around you feel good, and take care of them. And I've morphed that into what I now see as a very healthy ability to connect with other people. As long as I also take care of myself. It's been a process because I left undergraduate work and went immediately direct to the seminary. I went to Princeton Theological Seminary to be an Episcopal priest. And I decided there even though I got my M div that I didn't want to be ordained because I couldn't see myself working on Sundays I thought, can we do church like on Thursday afternoon would be a good idea, I love but what I've really also learned during seminary was my call was to sit with other people and listen to the power of their stories. I also started therapy. When I was in seminary, my mom had just died after a really long illness. I was traumatized. I didn't even realize the extent to which I was traumatized. And the more that I went through my own therapeutic process, and it's been that's been a lifelong journey to, the more I realized, I'm think I'm called to do this, to do the therapy work to help people come out of the shadows to own their stories to dig deep. So I went on to get my MSW. And then that took me into a practice as a psychotherapist, long story short, a corporation heard me speak at a conference offered me a job, I thought, well, hot diggity dog, people who work for corporations get cars paid for, I'm going to do this. So about 20 years ago, I left corporate America and opened my own shop, combining the therapeutic practice I had with the business expertise I garnered to create a leadership consulting practice. And here I am.

The Recovering CEO  26:07  
I love that. I love that. Okay, so I'm curious, you know, you've met a lot of business leaders out there. Is there ever a leader you could imagine that you couldn't help? Or that you wouldn't want to work with? And what would trigger that where you say, you know, maybe I'm not the person for you like, what would? What would make you feel that way?

Karen Hardwick  26:32  
That's a great question. I often don't show up thinking, I can help someone. And believe me, I'm not here to fix anybody. I'm here to act as a guide. I have expertise that can help to invite people into their own stories, so they can emerge from them with a holistic sense of who they are and become even more successful. However, there have been just a handful of clients. And seriously, just a handful, who have decided somewhere in the process. This isn't for me. I don't want to go that deep. I don't want to take the feedback that comes from a 360 process. I'm not willing to do this work. And we see that in the rooms too. I mean, there, there are people who are not ready for recovery, they might be ready to put down the drugs and the alcohol. But to really dig deep and do the emotional and spiritual work, they're not ready to do and then it's just a matter of time, before they go back to the substances. We've all seen that it's heartbreak, heartbreaking. And so the same is true for human beings in all walks of life. Some people just are not ready to do that work. It's scary. It takes humility, it takes them to a place they don't want to go.

Karen Hardwick  28:06  
What do they say constitutionally and we can't make them constitutionally incapable of being themselves usually incapable. Exactly on their fault. They're born that

Karen Hardwick  28:15  
way, ability to be just ability to be that rigorously self honest. It's scary. To be that honest. And yet wh Auden the poet said something so beautiful, Derek, and it sticks with me all the time. And it's so reflective of our recovery process. He said that there are people who would rather be ruined than changed. Yeah, yeah, well,

Karen Hardwick  28:49  
again, you know, in the well, there's, there's a song I'm a big, I'm a big, Grateful Dead fan. And there's a song that they play that they do a lot of traditional old songs, it's called deal and it says, you know, it costs a lot to win. You know, it takes a lot to win, but even more to lose, you and me might have spent some time wondering which to choose. So you know, winning winning cost a lot, losing costs more, but it's a big debate. They also say it in a where they say the choice between living a spiritual life or dying an alcoholic death was one that we had to think about for a while. Which seems crazy, but it shows sometimes the power of the other side, right, the Dark Side sort of Speaker It's powerful.

Karen Hardwick  29:33  
Oh, yeah. We start to believe the lies that the disease tells us. And what happens then is we we literally become slaves to the lies to the darkness. And that doesn't happen just with addiction, although, in some ways, it happens more dramatically for alcoholics and addicts, alcoholics and addicts were their issues on their sleeves, right? It's so clear to everyone else around them until they do surrender. But for a lot of people who suffer, it's not as obvious. And they keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different solution. Whatever their, whatever their suffering is, it could be working too much. It could be anger, it could be not being able to be vulnerable and showing up in a way that pushes other people away. Whatever it is, it's compulsive, and they keep doing more and more of it, because they would rather be ruined than changed.

Karen Hardwick  30:54  
You know, it's interesting, because I'm certainly not

Karen Hardwick  30:58  
please God,

Karen Hardwick  30:58  
as human beings are so complex. And life is messy.

Karen Hardwick  31:08  
It is, it is, you know, and so one of the concepts I really enjoyed in your book was the concept of, or strategy is being curious curiosity. You know, and you talked about how curiosity really unlocks a lot of things for leaders, and really opens up the possibilities, which I love, because I always viewed myself as a creative person, like the Think Different campaign, you know, honoring the people that think different, I think different. And because I'm sober, or because I've been able to do that work, then I can actually act on it, right, as opposed to keeping it my light under a bushel basket. But I think curiosity unlocks a lot of that, based on your book.

Karen Hardwick  31:49  
It's so important to be able to ask ourselves the tough questions. I mean, the good questions, too. I mean, this whole process of curiosity is a lot like life. It's hard and good. It's messy and beautiful. And when we ask ourselves questions, when we go there, when we're willing to look at ourselves, so many different opportunities can open themselves up to us. And I do believe that curiosity really is a game changer. And it is a superpower. And it's connected to empathy. Because we really can't be curious, until we're willing to hold our story softly and lightly and compassionately, and do the same with other people. So when I talk about curiosity with leaders, I like to distinguish it from questioning. Because curiosity means we ask questions that invite people to feel safe enough to open up to be innovative to take risks, which is very different from questioning, which is more about leaving people feeling like they're on the witness stand. And that we're just shoveling questions at them.

The Recovering CEO  33:16  
Yeah, that's wonderful. So here's a question for you. I understand the leaders, the leaders like the top people doing introspection and whatnot, it seems like there might reach a certain point where people are hesitant to share certain things or hesitant to go public with it, right? It's one thing for me to look at myself and say, This is what I'm dealing with? How do I go public with it and share in that safe environment? And is that ever a problem for people? Do some people hold on to things that they'd never want to give up? They might tell you, but they don't. They're hesitant to mention it to the leadership team, or?

Karen Hardwick  33:53  
Oh, sure. Oh, sure. And you know, in the program, we say, share, share what you need to share with yourself. So be honest with yourself, talk about it with your higher power, and one other person. So in order for us to release ourselves from our secrets, it doesn't mean we have to go public, with whatever it is we're struggling with. I want to be really clear about that. Because if people are going public with something, it has to be done in a very discerning way. So I really urge people to be very careful about what they're willing to share in any kind of public arena. And, and I also believe that it's helpful if we can find some ways to tell our stories. Because it helps to break the stigma. It helps to bring us out from the shadows. It does help us to align our personal with our Professional. And so I think if it's done with grace, it can be done very well. And that doesn't mean we overshare. And it doesn't mean we tell all the gory details, and it doesn't mean, we tell other people's stories. Like, how do I tell my story without telling other people's stories? Very carefully. So this whole idea of vulnerability is powerful. And I also want people to say, let me tap the breaks, and see what that means for me, how can I be vulnerable, and also discerning who has earned the right to hear my story? Who can I entrust that to? So for instance, a CEO can say to his or her team, I want you to know that I'm struggling with some things back at home. And that could possibly be more than enough. Now, that same CEO might want to tell one or two truly trusted colleagues in the organization a little bit more. And if they're giving an interview, after the crisis has passed, and there's some story of healing, or understanding that comes from that they might want to tell that story, to give hope to other people. It often depends on where we are in the developmental phase of the story. And who we're with. Does that make any sense? Derek?

The Recovering CEO  36:44  
Oh, yeah, yeah, if you're right in the middle of it, or if you're still in a very vulnerable position, it's probably best to keep it to your very close people. But like you said, if you're in more the healing phase, or you've come out of it, then it's at that point, you can really share your experience, strength and hope to show how people can get out of those types of situations are, right. Right, right time,

Karen Hardwick  37:05  
to not stay in the problem, but to share the solution as well. And not to should not to sugarcoat or give this 21 gun salute to false positivity. So when I talk about sharing the solution, I'm not talking about sugarcoating the problem. We have to be real and raw with our stories. And to do that, again in discerning ways.

The Recovering CEO  37:35  
You know, it's interesting, Karen, there's a person I work with, he runs his run treatment centers for many, many years, really wise person. And so what's the number one reason that people can never get sober, you know, especially after relapse, they can never get sober again. And he says, he said, humility, but then he said, it's very difficult to live in the light, which I think is interesting. And it goes back to the, you know, we're only as sick as our secrets, which means I can't lie, I can't keep secrets. And living in the light means everything I do, is visible, right are seen. And he said that it's very difficult for people to make that choice.

Karen Hardwick  38:15  
I heard this wonderful thing about humility. And I believe that humility is really the key to living a life of honesty. And there's a Hebrew translation of the word humility, that means to step into our God given space. So I'm no better or any worse than anybody else. And I've been given gifts to step into. And yet at the same time, how do I do that with understanding that that does not make me above or beneath anybody else, to just step into my god given space, with grace, and humility? These are not my gifts they've just been entrusted to me. So how do I make the most of

The Recovering CEO  39:13  
that's wonderful. You know, and thinking about your seven strategies to empower your true self and inspire others. Is there one that you feel is the most important that businesses really need to pay attention to?

Karen Hardwick  39:27  
I think there's so interrelated. Empathy flows from our ability to connect consciously and then enhances curiosity. And as we learn to navigate chaos comfortably, we need empathy. So they're really all very synergistic. I do believe that some leaders have a strength in some of them more pronounced than others. And like with anything, that's a beautiful thing, because then we can create an orchestra round Does that plays to our differences? So on any executive team, there are people who will definitely show up with more empathy than others. Some might be more curious, some might be able to listen more deeply, and some might be able to have that courage based confidence I talked about, it's a matter of knowing again, we go back to that self connection, it's a matter of knowing what we show up with, and what we might need to learn to do more effectively. Gotcha.

The Recovering CEO  40:36  
Yeah. Yeah, you know, the, this book, I think, is very unique. As I've said, I've read many business books, you know, I think about, I mean, use the the number seven, you know, there's the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. You know, there's, I've read, obviously, Dale Kearney. I mean, there's a lot of these classics, great books, right. And they may help you with your organization, Dale Carnegie might tell you how to be friendly to people and use their names. And they all have value. And I really like you know, I believe that there's so much power in the long tail, which means picking a topic, connected leader, and then going deep into it, right. Every business owner, every CEO may not be the type of CEO that wants to do this, right that wants to, because I feel like what you're teaching here makes everything else possible. So I could learn some organizational system on my seven habits. But if I'm not at peace with myself, if I don't understand myself, or if I'm not stepping into that God given space, I'm not going to be able to be organized or I'm not going to be able to do a Dale Carnegie's hasn't gotten shake hands if I don't feel good about myself to look people in the eye. So what you're doing here is almost a foundational thing for any business owner before they then learn all these other hacks. By hacks. I mean, like business tricks and techniques to then succeed. So I feel like yours is like the beginning of all that.

Karen Hardwick  41:56  
Oh, thank you. It's flown, it's flowed from my from my life. Because anytime that we focus on an outside solution, like, Oh, this is the checklist, or this book will help or this mat will be the magic bullet, and it's outside of ourselves. It doesn't have that sustainability, it doesn't have that staying power, power, the only thing that really works is when we get real about who we are seen it over and over again. And not just in my own life, I've seen it in cultures, and with senior level global executives. And with family owned founders. It works, it works if you work it. So we have to be able to have that courage to dive deep into ourselves. If we truly want to create wellbeing for those around us. It all starts with that connection to ourselves.

The Recovering CEO  43:05  
I love that I'll share a quick story with you. Because I've spent 1000s and 1000s of dollars on trainings and programs and different things. And I don't know necessarily if any of them worked, right. But one time I was talking to a sales trainer, nice guy. And he was asking me all these questions about sales. And he told me, he said, You know what the problems, not what you're selling or whatnot. He said the problems in here and he put his hand on my chest. And it made me emotional because he was right, the problem was here. But going through that high pressure sales training for $20,000 was not the answer. You know what I'm saying? So, so I related, yes, the problem is inside. But that didn't bring the the problem out that just told me how to stay focused and, you know, go through objections and win the sale, right? Which is, didn't work necessarily, you know, because I didn't understand myself at that time.

Karen Hardwick  44:02  
I was doing a corporate book club slash workshop a few weeks ago, and there was an executive in it a male executive. And we were discussing a part of the book. And he was in tears, because he said when he read a line in the book, it changed the outlook for him completely. And the sentence in the book was, we can't connect to or lead other people in inspiring ways until we connect to and lead ourselves in honest ways. That's the entire crux of the book of my life. It's not easy, but it is so rewarding and it changes everything.

The Recovering CEO  44:52  
Wow. Yeah. No, we'll wrap this up. You know, from my perspective, your book was a beautiful journey, and I appreciate that you share A lot of intimate details about your life as you told the story. And I feel like there was no waste in this book. It's not too long. You know, it's easy read, I told my wife, she's a really fast reader, she could do a very quick, but for me, it was just very impactful. And I need to read it again, honestly. But I'm wondering, Carrie, if you have any parting words for our guests, and he, you've shared a lot of wisdom. But is there any more final wisdom you'd like to say? Before we close?

Karen Hardwick  45:31  
Gathering my thoughts, I think I would like listeners to understand that while we're wired for connection, it's absolutely true neuro neuro biologically wired to connect, to choose the connections that you have with others very carefully. And we can do that effectively. When we really start to connect with ourselves. And when we have the courage to change what we can change. Love that

The Recovering CEO  46:09  
love that relates to our job to our personal relationships, all that. So Karen, Karen Joy, Hardwick wrote this amazing book, The Connected leader, you can get it on Amazon, I'm going to put links to it in the show notes. And, Karen, you're an inspiration to me starting out as someone who aspires to be like, like you're doing teaching people and helping bring them along, and I hope we can continue to collaborate and continue on this journey of recovery and helping others. So really pleased to talk to you today.

Karen Hardwick  46:43  
It was a privilege to connect with you, Derek, thank you so much. Thank you. All right.

The Recovering CEO  46:49  
Thanks for watching the recovering CEO and we'll see you all next time.