Chris Anthony The Sober Exec Podcast

The Recovering CEO  0:00  
Hello and welcome to the recovering SEO podcast. My name is Derek Mehraban. I'm the recovering CEO. And I'm here with a very special guest. Some of you may know him as the sober exec, which I think is awesome. He's a fellow Spartan named Chris Anthony's a business leader, public speaker, coach, mentor, and lifelong students striving to be of service to others. Chris has over 25 years experience in technology. He currently serves as the vice president of US consumer goods at Salesforce marketing cloud. Prior to that, he joined exact target, which is an email software company that was acquired by Salesforce for 2.5 billion. Chris founded the sober exec to help one or more person navigate their journey through sobriety. He's been sober for over 16 years, he studied Marketing at Michigan State. And He currently lives in Los Angeles with his wife and two children. So good morning, Chris.

The Sober Exec  0:55  
Good morning, Derek. Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it.

The Recovering CEO  1:00  
Yeah, I was I was really glad I found you. Because how cool is it that first of all, you're Spartan. Live in one of my favorite places, Los Angeles, which I love. And, and then also you're sober, right? And you've come out in the business world to try and make an impact and to reduce stigma. I just love it, Chris.

The Sober Exec  1:19  
Yeah, well, thank you for the kind words and all of that. And you nailed it. I'm so very visible about it. That's not always true, which we can talk about. And it's been very humbling and eye opening, going through 16, almost 17 years of sobriety. But yeah, it's it's been a joy, and I really appreciate the recognition.

The Recovering CEO  1:43  
Yeah. So, Chris, you know, I don't know if you know a bit about me, but I think it's, it's crazy, because I started the the recovering CEO, you've already had the sober exec for a few years, which is kind of mind blowing. But to me, it says something that great minds think alike, or that there is a need. There's a need for something like this. Right. Like you've seen it, you work at Salesforce, which is a huge company, I work at a small company. Right? So I think it's, it's become apparent to you is that is that accurate, that there is a need for reducing stigma and helping in the workplace.

The Sober Exec  2:15  
I absolutely think there is a need to reduce this stigma. And I lived the stigma, I've bought into the stigma for 15 straight years. And I hid my sobriety in shame, I thought it was something to be ashamed of, I thought it was something that wasn't something I should be proud of. Had an error in my thoughts. And I had a couple of wake up moments, I'm happy to talk about those as well. But I changed my thinking and and ever since then, it's been the greatest gift because I have folks like yourself who I've crossed paths, as with now, and others who reach out and ask for help and say, Hey, I'm ashamed. And I shouldn't be here, right? There's no shame in being healthy. So it's been just a wonderful journey.

The Recovering CEO  3:11  
All right, good. Well, well, I want to get to all those kinds of awakenings. And yeah, you could call them spiritual experiences. But let's go back just a little bit, because you and I were both the Michigan State in the early 90s. And that was where I did most of my drinking. And just so you know, it's very interesting now, because my daughter is a freshman. And yesterday, I saw her post some pictures from, you know, daytime parties at fraternities and St. Patrick's Day, and it's like, Oh, my God. And she's very aware of my addiction. You know, that was one thing with my children is I told them, because one of my jobs as a father is to kind of break the cycle. You know, I can't, I don't know if they're alcoholic or addict. I know, they may have some tendencies, but I want them to go in eyes wide open. You know, so, um, so she knows about alcoholism. But you know, and I told you, you can go to these parties sober. And you'll be able to interact much more nicely, you know, I don't know. But tell me a little bit about your time at Michigan State. Did you partake in some beverages while you were there?

The Sober Exec  4:10  
Absolutely. I mean, I, I personified every aspect of college life and was the life of the party, for sure. And I just thought it was the normal course of what you do. And I think in a lot of ways, it definitely is. But for myself, there was, I would say, a more insidious, dark, just problem developing through it. And I wasn't aware at the time, but I wasn't dealing with a lot of things that had happened across my childhood and home life and things that just drinking was a great escape. And I look to your left and your right in college, and everybody's doing it too. So it felt normal, and hey, it was fun, and you didn't have to deal with problems. So it just took me a long time. It wasn't till I was in my 30s before it really became deeply problematic, and I had to shut it down. But yeah, it's part of college life. No doubt about it. Mm hmm.

The Recovering CEO  5:09  
Yeah, it's, you know, I because I drank a lot. And then I switched to marijuana because I didn't like hangovers. And I never wanted to drink and drive. But it was interesting, Chris, because after I graduated, I had a lot of shame in relation to Michigan State University, because obviously, it was a wonderful place. But it took me six years to graduate. And I never realized, and somebody pointed this out to me actually a therapist, she said, you know, you had a full on disease of active alcoholism that was trying to kill you. So just the fact that you graduated is like a miracle, like, don't feel bad about it. And it took me years to feel good to go back on campus. But now I feel at peace, right? Because I've kind of removed, gotten rid of that feeling of shame. And I can live in the light now. And now I love Michigan State again in East Lansing. But for so long, it just it almost made me feel scared to go back on campus. I don't know if you ever felt any type of feelings like that. But

The Sober Exec  6:04  
I didn't or I haven't. What's really ironic, though, Derek is when I started speaking out about my sobriety and being more visible with it. Michigan State came to me and asked me if I would talk about it openly. There's a recovery community at Michigan State, which I am actually speaking to soon, more in a virtual session. But I was interviewed. Russ White has a great show on the college radio station there. He's been doing that for 25 years. And I got interviewed on that with Don Kepler from the Collegiate Recovery Community at Michigan State, and then share that because life is ironic. It goes full circle, and the one place where I would say I accelerated into my crazy life becomes the same vehicle that comes back to me years later. And I'm sharing what I learned. And what, where I've grown from that time. So it's, it's kind of kind of cool.

The Recovering CEO  7:06  
Yeah, I'm totally with you on that. Like, I always felt like I was the worst student at Michigan State University. And I know you, you were able to drink. You know, for quite a few years after college, I stopped right after college. But uh, you know, they have me back. So worked with Luana, Simon on some presidential advisory stuff. And I also taught a class there for 12 years, which I thought was hilarious, because I was the worst student ever. And I hear I was teaching 200 students a semester, a class about digital marketing. I know. I love that.

The Sober Exec  7:34  
That's yeah, I mean, it's the promises, the promises of at all. Yeah, Derek, and, you know, you you found very similar and even more, so you, you have now been able to connect the dots between, you know, where you started in your sobriety, and are able to come back to the same place where you found struggles, you're able to give back in a different way. That's super cool.

The Recovering CEO  7:58  
Yeah, it is, you know, we all gotta help. Right. I think that's the feeling that I think you and I can share. So tell me about this, because you've had what I would consider to be a very successful rise in the corporate world, you know, you were part of exact target, right? You were acquired, you've worked at Salesforce, you've been very successful. First of all, how did you manage that? You know, because you were still probably drinking at the beginning of your career, and then you got sober and tell me about that transition from you know, before you got sober and then living with being sober, but still being extremely successful.

The Sober Exec  8:34  
Yeah, um, I found myself Let's talk about before I got sober first and foremost, I, my drinking was something that I was refusing to acknowledge that my life was falling apart in many ways. And yet, I wasn't willing to acknowledge that it was tied to that the drinking was tied to that falling apart, my marriage was not going well, my performance at work wasn't going well. And it's not that I was drinking on the job. But it was if I'm going out and taking it very deep partying all night long. I'm sorry, you can't come to work the next day and be your best self consistently, every single day. You just can't. And I, you know, happy hours or anything else just I was the guy. It was like lighting a fuse. Like I'm the fun party guy. And like I said, it was it was messing up my marriage, and it just wasn't headed in a good place. And it showed in my work. I mean, it was just it wasn't good. And so I found myself in a situation where I needed to stop drinking. My mom was dying of cancer. I had to take some time to get sober. I knew it deepened my soul and I made the declaration that I was going to get sober her whole story behind that but I did and June 20 2005 was the last time I drank and And I have honored that sobriety ever since then. And so my life started to get better. Imagine that, I mean, marriage got better and my work performance, better everything around me got better now is you were saying at the top of this podcast here, just because you stopped one thing doesn't mean you know you, you get to stop dealing with all the stuff and challenges we have in life. And it's it's a day by day, hour by hour, sometimes minute by minute thing we have to manage. There is no finish line here. But I was clear headed, and I could start to work on myself. And so about a year later, an opportunity opened up to me to join what was the exact target that ultimately became Salesforce. And so here's the the key thing I want to stress out of this, though, Derek is the fact that I found sobriety, I started to work on myself started to improve and find myself in a better spot. It's really mad at myself and disappointed in myself that I had to stop drinking, I couldn't handle it, how weak of me, I used to think that I couldn't control alcohol, something bigger than me existed. But I was a part of a company that was growing, and I was able to prove myself and grow and grow and grow along the way. All the while I never stopped long enough to think, Hmm, I wonder why I'm having success in my career. I wonder why I'm having a good run. I would have never thought at the time it was because I made that decision to stop drinking and be clear headed and work on myself. I just refuse to acknowledge that because I'm so deeply ashamed. My thinking changed on that when I hit the 15 year mark. But it was a long road to get there was very shame felt.

The Recovering CEO  11:53  
Mm hmm. Yeah. So that's just out of curiosity, because I know stopping drinking is not always easy. There's, you know, it's difficult. And you know, they say it takes you a year or a few years to kind of get your head on straight, you know, did you Was there a period where you had to kind of relearn and re Find your footing, as far as being a sober individual versus having alcohol as a crutch?

The Sober Exec  12:19  
Absolutely, I, right out of the gate I had to from from getting sober. And anybody who I think anybody who said, either done drinking or using or insert whatever advice is bad if you're doing it in a group setting, even if you're taking a month off, because you're doing a I don't know, a whole 30 or diet, I mean, the amount of questions you get the amount of like almost hazing that happens in that moment, because you're making a declaration, hey, I'm no longer doing something that I have deemed unhealthy, or I'm taking a break from doing something unhealthy. It's a different world you're entering. And this comes back to a lot of the stigma that never well, what's going on? Did you have a problem with it? Did you have a challenge with it? Why are you stopping doing this? And with drinking specifically, like it's, it's crazy, it's people really go deep on that for whatever reason. So you have to find your identity in a way of like they knew you, and how to talk about it and be comfortable and proud and confident of it when you can. I had to relearn all of that. I also, you know, I talked about shame here a little bit. I also just had to learn to navigate away from a lot of those difficult conversations at the time. And for 15 straight years before I decided to start speaking out about my sobriety. I was avoiding conversations or avoid situations where I'd have to talk about my sobriety. And that's a whole change in who you are and how you handle situations. And so it was definitely finding new footing.

The Recovering CEO  13:57  
Yeah, you know, I remember when I when I was getting sober. I also so in addition to quitting drinking, I went vegetarian. And I kind of like packaged everything together started working out. And I just told people Yeah, I'm gonna help kick you know, like quitting me quit drinking, just throw the drinking in there casually. But it was a dramatic change, you know? And it really was, but yeah, you're right, because people, people are kind of obsessed with it. And it's partially because they want everyone to drink like them. It feels better when everyone's drinking and when someone doesn't it kind of makes some people feel a little uncomfortable sometimes.

The Sober Exec  14:35  
It can, it can for sure. And the irony here is if you tell somebody hey, I quit smoking because I was getting lung cancer and it was literally killing me. People are like, oh, man, good for you. Was that tough? Yeah, good. Cigarettes are bad. If you say I quit drinking, because literally it was killing me. People are like, whoa, hold on a second. What's going on? What are you mean, so I hate I don't judge others it is what it is. I just my ask always is that if someone's making a healthy decision whether it's smoking or stopping drinking or stop eating too much cheesecake people a break, let them be okay with making that change. They're simply being healthy, healthy as being healthy. honor that.

The Recovering CEO  15:20  
Mm hmm. Yeah. So, you know, you talk about cheesecake. Chris, honestly, I, I feel like I'm addicted to everything sugar, you know, I don't gamble because I know it's dangerous. But I love sports. I go to Michigan State all their football, their basketball games. You know, there's everything out there that I'm addicted to, you know, scrolling on my phone. And really, it's all just trying to numb and escape, you know, so I've had to try and, you know, create habits, right? So the positive activities replacing negative activities like drinking with positive like working out. I've been working on meditation, which has always been difficult. But lately, there's been these apps and things you could use. So yeah, what type of what type of healthy habits are you using to kind of balance a stressful maybe executive job with, you know, sobriety? And being a good father and husband, all that stuff? How do you how do you balance it all?

The Sober Exec  16:13  
Yeah, I think one of the most important things to establish is really thinking about what your life's vision or purpose is. And it took me a very long time to get super crystal clear on what my purpose in this world is. But setting a vision for yourself. And what in documenting some of the values that you stand for are is a great way to memorialize on paper, here's my vision for my life, here are things that I value in revisiting those daily, and so you're touching on some really good things that are challenges for anybody with any kind of addiction is is that this this burning need for more, and it's really what you're describing, in my mind is this, this addiction to more, more cheesecake, more scrolling, more, insert, whatever. And so what I've discovered is that routine is my friend, and that when I revisit my vision and my purpose, and I literally do it every single day, and I mix it with, does this action reflect my vision and my values, it has really helped me pause myself for making a bad decision. By the way, I'm not good at not eating a lot of cheesecake, but it, we're working on that and we all are working on something we can always have more discipline, but staying centered on purpose and values I have found personally and professionally no matter what. And having routine behind it introduces discipline and a framework to operate in. It was Einstein, it's an old Einstein quote, I'm big on quotes, but inside a discipline, lives freedom. Excuse me, my voice is going out a little bit here, inside a discipline, lips freedom, and you hear some thought leaders today say discipline equals freedom. Either way you put it it's true, is when you have discipline within a framework, you can find a lot more freedom from vices or from insert whatever. So that's how I've been able to really take the control. And I should say, manage all of that addiction no more.

The Recovering CEO  18:28  
Yeah. I love that. Chris, that's wonderful. You know, let me quote, let me quote, The Great Mel Tucker, when he says keep chopping, you know, and Mel's teach Michigan State football coach. And he's teaching these kids he says, You know, I don't want you to get too high. I don't want you to get too low. I want you to be able to forget about what just happened, the last play and just stay focused on the goal. And I've even taken that philosophy to heart, you know, because I am good at the highs and the lows. Right? But how do I stay consistent? The other person I think about when I hear you talk about being inside the discipline gives you freedom, right? So well there's also that there's the 12 steps, right? So living inside, you know, with these principles, it gives me the freedom to be the person that I want and to do anything I want really you know, as they say we can go anywhere and do anything as long as we kind of maintain our spiritual condition or or peace of mind. But also think about someone like Zuckerberg, I don't know if you're a fan or not, but I like how he wears like the same outfit every day. So his whole closet is full of the same T shirt and the same pants and they just have to think about it. I just I love that it's the simplicity concept, you know?

The Sober Exec  19:33  
Yeah, there's there is brilliance in simplicity. And back to this idea of hat yes to everything you're saying this framework creates simplicity in the more you can operationalize your day in your time I have found that it's a game of small wins. If you've read atomic habits by James clear, you know every one of his quotes And we're having fun with quotes here. So let's keep going. He says every action you take is a vote, good or bad for a future version of yourself. I love that. Because when we make the conscious decision to follow routine, have discipline in what we do honor our vision and our values, your likelihood to make better votes for yourself now and in the future, are much higher. Furthermore, good habits no matter how small of a win in them compound and move you to new levels of growth. By the way, we could be talking about anything with this I not like we're talking about you and I are having a conversation about managing addiction. This could be anything, this is like getting better at learning something, it could be exercise, it could be doing your job more effectively. So the simplicity and the framework is all there. It's a matter of creating one and staying true to it and constantly adapting and getting better from it. In my mind.

The Recovering CEO  21:06  
Mm hmm. You know, and it's interesting, because I have not read that book, even though I need to, but I did listen to and maybe you listened to it as well. Brene Brown interviewed him in her podcast. Yeah. Last fall. Yeah. And it just blew my mind. Right. So yeah, each small step, like just do one pushup if you can't do 50

The Sober Exec  21:24  
I love that. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, his thing is progress over perfection. And the book spoke to me and I confident it will to you as well, just around like what it's like having to manage addiction or manage this, this daily. I don't want to say monkey in our back. But it's something that we have to manage constantly. And when you think in terms of small wins that stack up and compound over time. That makes so much sense, good habits, or bad habits, you pay the price for him. And it's all about small habits that help you win more often.

The Recovering CEO  22:05  
Yeah, and it was interesting to me, because sometimes you look at these people, and they're so successful, right? Whether it's the author of that book, Brene Brown all these people, but then he fully admitted on the podcast that he wrote down all these recommendations because he struggles with being disciplined, waking up on time doing something every day. So he turned that into a whole way for living. So nobody's perfect. Right? It all takes a little bit of effort and awareness.

The Sober Exec  22:29  
No, nobody's perfect. There's the line mechanics drive the worst cars. I don't know. That's actually truth. Anybody that's a mechanic listen to say no, I have an awesome totally tuned up car. But a lot of times that happens is we get really good at fixing other people fixing other things. But we forget the process to fix ourselves. And we have to remember to take care of ourselves. I think that's really, really important. Yeah,

The Recovering CEO  22:56  
yes. So tell me, you know, you've been in business for a while. Some of these principles, Chris, you know, that you're teaching and that you personify? Do you see other executives struggling with this stuff, too? I mean, you know, I know you've said you've seen a lot or now that you're come out of sober people talk to you. Do you feel like addiction in the workplace is a problem? And are we raising awareness in general?

The Sober Exec  23:25  
It's a problem. I think that there are a especially in sales, I'm in sales. By the way, just for perspective, you might have said that at the intro, but I'm then I'm in sales and sales is a very wined and dined type of culture. It's just, it's alcohol and partying is very much a part of this industry, this culture, no matter what is being sold, I think alcohol is just like Central to it. It's just a key part of it. My point and just focusing on Salesforce second is that I've heard a lot more horror stories, if you will, about individuals coming to me and saying, Hey, I am ashamed of being sober or I'm ashamed of just not drinking, forget about not being sober. Some people just don't drink. I mean, that's just a fact. And yet they're ashamed of it because they are being made to feel as if they're not a part of the team. And they feel as if it's keeping them back from growing. I thought that for a very long time, I believed me not drinking was a weakness and keeping me back from growing was still successful. I still had a great career. My point though, is that it is still a problem in the workplace. It I think is only been accelerated more and more with the pandemic where, you know, someone could be sitting on a zoom call with a mug I'm holding up a mug because you and I are video together but you know, who knows that could have a glass of wine in it for some cases, I think This idea of the visibility of addiction suddenly got put away for two years moving to zoom, it opened up a lot more opportunities for addicts to use and consume. And so long way of getting to, it is still a massive problem. It is still massively stigmatized. I am trying to normalize it to the best of my ability. I'm grateful that I work for an amazing company, Salesforce. And by the way, I mean, I'm here speaking as Chris, not on behalf of Salesforce, but I'm really proud of my company. I mean, they they have honored my sobriety, no one's ever come to me and said, Whoa, hey, stop talking openly about your sobriety, not at all. In fact, just the opposite. We've created a group internally that celebrates sobriety, we can talk about that too. But like, Yeah, I think that's the exception, not the rule. I hear people all the time, come forward and say, I'm scared at my job, because what will be thought about me, I won't get a opportunity to grow in my job because I'm sober. I'm like, that's awful. You're being healthy, and you're you feel suppressed from being able to grow. That's not okay. So, by me speaking out, and trying to just help others feel okay with sobriety, and like, Hey, I'm doing pretty good. I think in my career in my life, and I'm proud of what I created. I know my purpose. And I'm sober. So let's normalize this, let's be okay with this, and not hold it against somebody. But there's still a long way to go. What do you think?

The Recovering CEO  26:29  
But, I mean, I do think it's very interesting. You know, if you think about it, Chris, like, some of the mistakes that happen, some of the biggest mistakes that happen in corporate America, where, you know, people get get fired, or they cross boundaries, you know, they often almost always involve alcohol. And I think that's the people that that's the thing that nobody wants talk about, like, you know, I did this stupid thing when I was drunk. And, you know, there's that old saying, an AA that says, you know, every time I drank, I didn't always get in trouble or arrested. But every time I got in trouble arrested, I was always drinking, right? So I think, you know, sobriety in the workplace, really, for longevity, and for being able to avoid all these, me to moments and these things where you're going to cross boundaries and get in trouble is very helpful to be sober, and like more clear thinking, so it's a no brainer for me.

The Sober Exec  27:23  
Yeah, I absolutely, I just you feel, to hear that individuals are struggling or feel like they can't be themselves or can't feels if they're limited simply by a choice they're making is just so concerning to me. And something I just, I want to try to normalize as much as possible. You know, you mentioned Brene, brown, and cheat, she makes a really good point, which I wholeheartedly agree with. And I'm talking about being more visible and proud of, you know, these healthy choices in sobriety that we're making. It doesn't mean working your stuff out loud. In other words, like, this isn't about like, I'm going to work all my problems out publicly and put it on everybody else to help me solve anything. There's the difference between asking for help and being visible with like, what you're working out. I'm simply saying just having some pride and normalizing making healthy choices. And that's what this is about is we all have something I don't care who you are, we all have something that weighs on our shoulders. And it can be addiction, it can be hurts, it can be loss. There's something no one, no one is free have that I'm kidding. I know this to be true. And that's okay. Like, let's normalize that. Let's just honor when someone makes a healthy choice to be a better person. I think that's absolutely fantastic. And I want to just respect that thrown through and create an environment where it's more normalized and visible.

The Recovering CEO  28:56  
Yeah, I love that. And I know you mentioned you're sober, sober force. It's called I believe, can you tell us a bit about that? Notice that help people at Salesforce.

The Sober Exec  29:05  
Yeah, yeah. So thanks for asking. So we're so on June 20 2020, which was exactly 15 years of my sobriety, I quote, unquote, came out about my sobriety, and I put an article on LinkedIn called 15 things I learned in 15 years of sobriety. And there the lead up to that mind you I hid in would never have dreamed for 15 years before that, I would do that. But I put this article out there, I decided it was time no more like masking and being disappointed in myself for being sober. I'm proud of it. And it's the reason I have the life I have. So I decided to put it out there. And that was really scary. And I thought, oh, man, what's going to happen? And we're going to get judged and what's going to happen but I just in my soul, I knew I just needed to be more of visible about being sober and stop being ashamed of it. So I did it. And of course, zero bad things happen. In fact, just the opposite. The most beautiful thing happened within an hour, someone sent me a message and said, Oh, my gosh, I didn't know this, I need help badly. I'm not going to make it through the day, can you help me. And in that mall in that person got helped, by the way. But the beauty of that was, is that in that moment, I found my purpose in this world. And that is to be of service to others. The other thing that happened among many things that ties back to your question is some other executives at Salesforce three others actually saw the post and said, Awesome, we love that. Thanks for doing that. We're sober too. Maybe we should talk do something with this. And so the four of us got together, and we got on a zoom. And we said, Wow, this is awesome. We're for executives and highly visible roles in this incredible company. And what can we do to help others. And at Salesforce, we have a quality resource groups and affinity groups like we have that force for veterans. It's all play on the Salesforce name, we have faith force, bringing together religious communities, we have ability force for anybody that's mobily challenged all kinds of different forces. That is a beautiful thing in our company that brings communities together. So we created silver force. In like overnight, we have 300 members. And it ran the gamut, like it was people that are sober and want to stay sober. It was allies, spouses of sober people, I mean, just insert all different interest in the sober community, we suddenly had a whole new internal community we didn't even know existed that was created overnight. It and a lot of anonymous people, of course, like tons of people that have messaged us quietly and said, Hey, I'm watching I'm following. I'm preferring not to disclose my participation. Great, no problem. But the fact that they're getting something from it, and we've had lots of people reach out for help, we've been able to be more visible. We've had guest speakers where it's really a beautiful thing. And now, we have other big organizations coming to us saying, how do we duplicate this? How do we create a sober force type community in our company? So it's just been one of the most rewarding things I've been able to have the gift of being a part of.

The Recovering CEO  32:36  
Yeah, that is that is so exciting. How amazing that that the catalyst of that one article, that one detailed post was the catalyst all that right, so cool.

The Sober Exec  32:46  
Yeah, yeah. First chapter in. Yeah, go ahead.

The Recovering CEO  32:50  
I was gonna say, tell me a little bit about, you know, some of the some of this wisdom, you know, like, what are some of the important things that you learned that could help someone who's trying to get sober, newly sober and trying to live life in the workforce?

The Sober Exec  33:03  
Yeah, um, there's a lot of wisdom to share. But I'll highlight some big learnings that I've had in this process just from the before and after of being in silence about it to coming up the other side of being much more visible and open about sobriety. And so I think we'll go back to this idea of really have some pride in the fact that if we are, I shouldn't say we, if an individual is making a healthy choice to be sober, feel good about that. Feel great that you're honoring your health, to be a better version of yourself, in my mind when someone says, and again, I don't care if it's an addiction thing, or some kind of self improvement. When someone's working on themselves to be a better version of themselves, and puts them even better in a position to help others. I gotta tell you, there is nothing cooler than that. It's badass. And we need to feel good about that. But we forget and get caught up in shame and what will other people say and think, and try to remember that you're not alone, and that it's okay, to create a better version of yourself. Don't get caught up in the future. Don't get caught up in the past. Be focused on the moment now and be proud that you're doing something to create a better version of yourself. It is admirable, it is cool. And there is nothing wrong with just trying to improve yourself. So that's the big one that I spent 15 years denying that me making healthy choices every single second for 15 straight years. Was a shameful thing. Okay, wasted. I don't wanna say waste that I'm exactly where it should be. But I spent 15 years thinking me being a healthier version of myself was something to be ashamed of. And if someone can hear have that and feel better about the fact that you don't need to feel bad. In fact, it will get you so much farther healthy choice of any kind, will get you so much farther than you ever can imagine. You will accelerate your progress far, far faster than I did and do even greater things. So there's a there's a wisdom.

The Recovering CEO  35:18  
Hmm, that's powerful. That is powerful. No, I love that. I love that Christian. And you're right, I think, you know, sometimes we have feelings that are just, like, don't talk to strangers, all these thoughts that are instilled at us, you know, there was that that shame? That was just an eight, like, don't talk about these things. You know, we don't we don't talk about these things. These are family secrets, these you know, and it's all just BS, right? It's all just, it's a friend of mine says, you know, one of the reasons people don't get sober is that it's, it's very hard choice to live in the light. You know, it's sometimes just easier to live in the darkness. And it's nice that you've come out right in the light and helping others to expose their, you know, shine their lights as well, right?

The Sober Exec  36:04  
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, it's it's easy to keep kicking the can down the road and not taking things out. And I think that, you know, just to take what you said a little bit further, because I think it's very insightful, is when you when you're signing up for no longer muting, whatever pain you have inside or whatever misery you may be dampening with, you know, other choices or refusing to take head on. That's hard work. That's why I say people that make a healthy choice like this, it's badass, because you're being the toughest up tough. And it is hard to be vulnerable. It is hard to take on those moments. But I'd say that, you know, moments are fleeting, and you, it's easy to get caught up in the idea of, okay, I have maybe some big nasty things that I've got in my life, or I've created in my life that I need to tackle or deal with. Well, the sooner you start dealing with them, the sooner you get to move beyond them and get to a better place. But that's hard to remember. That's scary. But it's all about just getting through the moment. You're not trying to get through forever, you're just trying to get through the right now. And if you can embrace and lean into whatever hard pain and darkness, it's there. It's gonna fade So much faster than taking it down the road. But it is very hard work. And it's scary work. But it pays off.

The Recovering CEO  37:37  
Yeah, Chris? No, I'm so happy. I'm so happy I met you, you know. And one thing that this is interesting, I read this recently, because I'm doing this workbook, it's called the abandonment workbook. Just because I was like I was adopted, right. So you know, trauma, or addiction is often caused by some sort of trauma from the past. And it takes work to figure out what that is, and then to deal with it. So I don't have to, like, have that problem. But it says that if you suffered some sort of dramatic trauma as at a young age, then you spend the rest of your life in pain management. And that concept blew me away. Because you know that my trauma happened when I was very young. And are you telling me I spent the rest of my life in pain management from age one or two or three when I had no concept. And that just blew my mind? And eventually, it evolved into alcohol and drugs and all these things. But um, what an interesting concept. Have you ever? I don't know, I just wanted to share that share that

The Sober Exec  38:32  
thought I like it. I mean, I think that it's very true. In so you have 25 years of sobriety, I have almost 17 Yep. Now to somebody that has 25 days, or 17 days, or 25 minutes or 17 minutes of sobriety. I always say to those individuals that might look at someone like you and I that we haven't figured out. And what I would I tell them is two things. One, I say, I definitely don't have it all figured out. And and actually that to that individual that's newly sober, I say we're actually in the exact same place. Meaning that while I'm further down the road, the distance the ditch for each of us is exactly the same. And we're the same distance away from making a bad decision. And the difference though, is is that you and I have a little bit more muscle memory, we've managed longer, and we found more tools. So we're on equal footing with the newest of newest silver people. But we just have built more muscle and more skills and tools. Ideally we have and that's what we're out there to share. And that's what you're doing with this great podcast. And so it is something that I'm tying this back to that what you were talking about that you read that workbook is is that there is no finish line here. This is a marathon, not a sprint. And it is lifelong managing management of it. But when you have a framework, when you start to establish a vision for your life and things that you value and what you care about, that creates that framework to operate in and manage it day over day over day.

The Recovering CEO  40:23  
Yes, yes, yes. Yes. So I just have two more quick questions for you, Chris. Cuz we want to wrap up soon. But so I know you're on the Los Angeles sports and entertainment commission. Did you have anything to do with the recent Super Bowl that came to LA? And just wanted to know if you want to share an experience on that?

The Sober Exec  40:42  
Yeah, so myself, personally, I did not. The Los Angeles sports entertainment commission is really an exceptional organization that is all about helping the city of Los Angeles spread its wings from a visibility perspective for events for tourism, for honoring those in the community, and anybody that like Google's at the the amount of work that the organization does in the community is just exceptional. It's just super cool. And the organization is also behind trying to help getting things like the Super Bowl, and the LA 28 Olympics here and other sports and entertainment, hence the name events to stay in and be a part of that of Los Angeles. And that's important city for those type of things. I got involved through my work a number of years ago, in just trying to contribute where I can and share some ideas and thoughts. And it's something I've maintained, contact with and been a part of the community of the autogenous sports entertainment commission. But for the Super Bowl itself. No, I didn't. I didn't have personally a hand in that. But I'm a huge supporter of it. And the individuals that are at the lead of that are just some of the most extraordinary people helping really drive great events in the future for Los Angeles.

The Recovering CEO  42:02  
Okay. Yeah, I thought it turned out pretty well. But for at least from my perspective, second, I know you're in an era Metallica's Board for their nonprofit. So have you gotten to mount them?

The Sober Exec  42:17  
Some of them not all day. And so it's, it's, it's the evolution thing, I help with their advisory board. So they have a wonderful charity called the all within my hands Foundation. And so the all within my hands, helps in a couple of areas, hunger relief, Workforce Education, and then around disaster relief, like when there's major global events, local services and supporting them. And here you have this rock band, which I'm a big fan of you have this massive rock band that has global explode exposure, and what a great opportunity to help others. And so the foundation itself is very focused on creating with its reach, helping individuals in those areas like when there's wildfires, or you know, there's an initiative is around community colleges, where women in welding as an example, or helping individuals that want to get some blue trade collar skills and find jobs, the foundation has been able to provide some scholarships to those individuals and really help them get a start in their career. And so mixing my favorite music together with trying to help others is really like the coolest thing ever to me.

The Recovering CEO  43:29  
Heck, yeah. I, one of the best concerts I ever saw. And you might have been there back at Pine knob. I think it was 1992 is the injustice for all tour. And the opened up for Metallica. And I think I kind of lost him hearing that night. Because it was loud.

The Sober Exec  43:46  
Yeah. Yeah. It's super cool. Yeah, they're, they're just it's an unbelievable organization do wonderful things.

The Recovering CEO  43:54  
Yeah, they're wonderful band. All right, Chris. Well, pleased to have the sober exec on our podcast, I'm gonna put links to all your materials in the show notes. And, yeah, it'd be great to meet up you know, if you're in East Lansing or if you're in town, you know, maybe go to a game together or something. And we got to stay in touch man, but any parting words you want to get to our listeners? Any final final things you want to say?

The Sober Exec  44:22  
Absolutely. So first, thank you, Derek, so much for having me on and appreciate your vulnerability and what you know your background and why you created this in the spirit of helping others. I am confident you just through this vehicle of speaking out and invited guests on helping more people than you know. So really, I'm grateful for that. Then the chance to talk a little bit about my story. I'll just echo what I said earlier is there is no shame in being healthy. And to add on to that there is no shame in asking for help. If you want to get in create a better life for yourself. Simply ask for help. There is nothing we can do alone. And I'll end on a quote, which is, I've never met an accomplished person with an easy past. It's really true. You've got to ask for help. And even if you've had a really hard past the opportunity to grow and become a better version of yourself requires asking for help from others. And you can become that accomplished person, but you can't do it alone. So thanks Derek, so much.

The Recovering CEO  45:29  
Wonderful, Chris. Thank you. Thank you everyone who listened to the recovering CEO today, and we will see you next time. Have a good day, Chris.